Nicola: [00:00:00] hello and welcome to the female leaders on fire podcast. I am your host. I am Nicholas Buckley and I am the coach for women in the corporate world at the very top of the corporate line. That are really wanting to refine their fire, to refine that purpose, that passion, that excitement, so that they can have more influence, more impact and income as a result.

So they can also make a real difference and drive some really positive change in the corporate world. And I’m super excited to do. Because I have a brilliant guest on with me and that guest is Jane and Jane and I are going to be talking all about the truth about the great resignation that’s happening imminently and has been happening for awhile as a result of lockdown and what it means for women at the top of the corporate ladder.

So welcome Jane. I’m super excited that you’re here.

Jane: [00:01:00] Thanks. I’m so excited to be here, to be a guest on your podcast. I love it. I feel like I’ve, I feel like I’ve lived through the gestation period and the birth of your baby. Yeah. So I’m excited to be here, so thank you and hello to everyone listening. Oh,

Nicola: Jane, you have a brilliant voice for this as well.

So just a bit of context, a bit about Jane and she’ll introduce herself in a minute. So Jane works with, um, she’s a private career coach for senior HR professionals. Who’ve really outgrown their current roles. So what I would call they’ve lost that fire and that spot. And they want to get their next dream role in their dream company with a dream package and all of that in less than six months.

And her lived experience was she came to this after experience and redundancy, not once, but twice in one year, once her choice on the other note. And she’s had some incredible experience working for British airways and Leon restaurants, um, and just in various roles in leadership and development. So does that kind of sum up you [00:02:00] Jane and, and what’s brought you to here or is there more to it than that, that

Jane: you want to share?

I mean, that’s pretty much it in a nutshell. That’s my, that’s my story. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I just, I think it’s almost like we are just a culmination of all of our life experiences. Aren’t we? So, like, everything that has happened to me in my life has kind of led me to this point, which is.

Nicola: Fantastic. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think I just, I speak to many women. I end up working with a lot of women and, and a lot of them are huge crossroads where it’s almost like a sliding door moment of their life could go very much one way or their life could go another way. So for some women that is actually a woman, a new VIP client from this week, it was, she was at the point.

Just feeling like she had no choice, but to resign because she’d given so much for so long or not feeling heard that actually I can’t do this anymore. And I’m just going to step away and do something that’s easier. Cause it’s just too hard [00:03:00] or impacting on their health. They might be signed off with anxiety or might be referred on for counseling or nudge to get some external support from someone like me or you around coaching and kind of having that space for themselves.

So I see so many women that almost. Pushed out of where they are rather than running towards where they want to. Yeah, and I love what you do because yours is very much about helping women to run towards where they want to be in that. What is my dream job in my dream company with the dream package that goes with it.

And we, we can’t forget that last part because women tend to underplay their value and their worth and, and struggling. Salary negotiations and really ask him for what they’re worth.

Jane: Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting what you say. Cause I think that was certainly the reason that I left British airways. I mean, you know, I was, I was my last role, there was head of talent and I, that was, that was my dream job.

It was almost a job that I’d worked up to and I got it. It was amazing. And, but what I’d done [00:04:00] on the ways I’ve been HR business partner in lots of different client areas, I could see there was this kind of like. Cut cut, cut kind of culture. And in the airline and the airline industry is an interesting one because it’s always impacted immediately by any kind of world event.

So a lot of the things that happen to the airline industry and they faulted the airline industry, it, you know, things started for me at, you know, nine 11, and then you go through like, sorry. Yeah, volcanic Ash and foot and mouth disease and the financial crash of 2008. And there’s, there’s always a crisis that’s never your fault.

And the response is let’s take out, let’s take out money, which actually means people in an airline sense. Exit is a lot of people from the business. And I knew at some point that guilty was going to come down on my neck. And when I have the opportunity to put myself forward to carry on doing my job, plus two other people’s jobs.

Yay. We’re going to do [00:05:00] more with less. Yeah, no, not. You can Foxtrot Oscar on that one because that’s not going to be me. I am going to take the opportunity to exit the organization where the check in my. And I think for me, I’d been there almost 20 years, which goes by in a flash. And I, and I, you know, I will never diss that organization.

I had created some fantastic opportunities for me, but I just knew that if I didn’t leave at that point, when I was 46, I would be that 50 something year old, who was. Pissed off and bitter. And I don’t want to be that person cause thighs not me. So I just took that leap of faith. I had a cushion. Yes. But you know, I took that leap of faith and I just thought, if not now, then when

Nicola: I love it, I absolutely love it.

And I think it’s an important point that you said as well. We’ll start, we’ll have a, have a look into the great regs situation in a minute, but I love some of what you [00:06:00] said and I think. This is a really important point. And I’ve talked about it a couple of times on the podcast now, but to kind of recognize where we are and our relationship with our job, because your job almost goes through same relationship stages as a relationship.

So there might be that initial honeymoon period where like, oh my God, I’ve got the job. This is my dream job. I’ve landed a I’m there. And then you settle into the, you know, the more normal routine you’re living together, you know, leaving the toilet seat off, and then that you move into at the far end of that, yours, you almost move into, if you’re not keeping the passion, if you’re not keeping what I call your fire and your, your purpose, your excitement about it.

And that’s your responsibility. Partly the organization, but also we’ve you to guard that and make sure that you’re setting boundaries, you’re saying no. And that you’re doing what you’re responsible for, not banned to other jobs. It’s really, it’s all about actually. How, how did you keep that passion? How to keep that fire?

Um, for many women, they just get to the point where the. They’re in a [00:07:00] role that’s brilliant externally, but internally there’s real apathy about it. Like I just can’t be bothered. I just don’t have the energy and the will to fight anymore. Cause it’s things such an uphill battle. Take that on the next step.

You’re almost into the resentment and the frustration of this. Again, it’s done. It looks great. But inside, this is, this is just finished

Jane: shit show

Nicola: it’s that difference? Isn’t it. Between the external, how it looks versus the internal, how it’s feeling. And I would say to women that are maybe at that point where they’re feeling apathetic, this, unless you start taking control of that now and doing the things you need to, to fall back in love with what you do is going to lead into that frustration and resentment, where.

For me when I left corporate world, I remember sitting in a meeting and it sounds like a, was there an absolute moment? I know I need to leave no, been building up for a long time, but I just, I remember I was in my last role, which has head of commercial and I sat in a meeting and someone asked me a question.[00:08:00]

And I didn’t even know what the question was. I was so far in thinking about, I was running a bootcamp then outside of work, it was a personal trainer. I was thinking about a client or something, how to help them move better, eat something better. And I was just like, I was not there. And that for me, was that almost that this is, this is beyond apathy.

I’m taking up a role that someone would probably love. That will be a great opportunity. I’m stopping myself in the world doing the thing that I think I meant to do. And I’m just, who is this helping? This is not inspiring my team anymore. They can sense it. They know my energy cause they know how they know me.

So the women in the corporate world, what is, what are the potential signs that it might be time for change?

Jane: I think there’s something there’s something for me. So, so if you think about, you know, British airways, it’s a company with a really long tenure. So there is that thing of. Yeah. We’ve tried this before because everything in business is cyclical.

Right. So there was a lot of that for me. And I [00:09:00] was like, I was always the person who was saying like, well, yeah, you might have tried it before, but you know, the conditions are different now. And I was just, and I could feel myself kind of sinking into, yeah, we’ve tried that before. It’s not going to work.

It’s not going to work. And I just thought that there’s always this outer body experience where you’re just, I, for me, what it was is like, this is not who I am. And you also get to a point where it’s like, I spent more time in meetings, rolling my eyes and thinking I don’t give a shit. Like, I don’t care.

You’re just all talking. Cool. Bollocks. And, you know, it’s like if none of us were here, the planes would still keep flying. Someone said to me, once, you know, I was in, you know, those, you know, for a, for a while, but keep flying, you know, when people didn’t get paid and stuff, they’d be a problem. But yeah.

It’s like, actually, if I’m not here doing this job, you know, people might notice in about six months time, but no one would notice [00:10:00] right now. And I just, you know, you just know you just get this gut feeling where you just think, yeah, Something’s not right. Either something has changed in the organizations that might be triggered from the outside world.

It might be, you’ve got a new boss, a new CEO is taking your company in a different direction. It can be any of those things, but deep down, you know, and the longer you’ve been somewhere, the harder it is, because I was thinking about my exit for, I think, two years easy.

Nicola: I think I was about 18 months. Yeah.

Some really long time. Yeah. So if you get, start to get to the point where you kind of scent and you have those feelings, you have that, I know how do you get past that sense of, so for a lot of my clients said the main breadwinner and they have that pressure and they have almost like the golden handcuffs of.

Can I suck it up for a bit longer to support my family or actually, can I take the risk knowing that I, yeah, hopefully you’ve created Clem kind of buffer for myself and [00:11:00] just step past that and know that trust in that something will come

Jane: well. It’s interesting because that was exactly me. So I, I was earning about three times as much as my husband at the time.

Yeah. So I was thinking like, You know, and I’ve always been quite good with money. I didn’t grow up with a lot of money, so I’ve always been super careful. I changed my energy provider. I do all of that kind of stuff. We meal plan and shop, you know, only what we need do all of that. And I actually started building up a fund, so my husband’s crapped with money.

Right. He says he doesn’t care. I’m like, that’s because you’ve always had it darling, but it’s almost like, so I actually started siphoning off. So at the end of every month, I would siphon off money and to buy into my savings because it’s like the more, and this is what I had talked to my clients about.

Now, particularly if they’re leaving a business through redundancy, my question to them is how long will your money last? It doesn’t matter how much you’ve got it. Doesn’t matter if you’ve got 10 grand or a hundred grand. [00:12:00] It’s about you and your lifestyle and how long will it last and the longer your money lasts, the less likely you are to make a bad decision, you know?

And I said, there’s no such thing as a bad decision, but you, you’re not going to panic. You’re not going to make a panicked decision because, because of the money situation. So, you know, that’s what I was doing that for kind of 18 months, I was putting money aside. Cause I thought this is my cushion because I don’t know.

I don’t know how long it’s gonna take me to find a new job. Cause that’s what I thought I was going to do at the time. But also, I don’t know if I want to get a new job. I want to have some time off. I’ve worked since I was. 14 in one way, shape or form. It’s like, I’ve never had a gap year. I’ve never had that time off.

I’ve never, I’ve never been able to just sit back and enjoy life and you know, I’m going to be working for another. You know, 15, 20 years. So I think I deserve a break, but I didn’t want to take that [00:13:00] break feeling stressed about money. So I just started putting a lot of money away and it just building that, building that cushion for me, which I, which I know in terms of me and my money style that gave me the confidence to them.

Because had I not had that, I would really have struggled with it. So it’s almost like, think about what’s what is it, what is it going to be like, what do you need to happen? What do you need to do to make that happen? So if it’s a question of, I don’t know if I can afford to. Right. So, so stop spending money on stuff, you know, go through this with your, if you live with someone, with your partner husband, it’s a family decision because you’re going, do we really need Amazon prime?

Netflix? Yeah. Sky sports and this and that, by the way, that’s 120 quid a month. You suddenly go, oh yeah, that’s a lot of money. What could you do with that?

Nicola: No. Yeah, absolutely. So it’s almost go through that [00:14:00] process of creating that safety and security. So your decision then isn’t driven by fear decision it’s.

It’s a driven by passion decision.

I yeah. And if you’re going into those interviews and we have a different energy of is this right for me rather than, oh my God, please take me

Jane: as I say this too. This is my feedback to my boss. So Ali, if you’re listening to you, remember this, my, my feedback was like you too, you too, like a poppy, your tea.

And it’s a beautiful thing because she wants please. And you’re, you know, you’re kind of bound in and you’ve got this great energy, but you’re like, they stroke me and let me play rather than it’s like be more cat and it’s like, you know, cats are just like, yeah, what do you want over? And sit on your lap.

But I’ll, I’ll decide when, and it’s like the D you know, chill, potting is a dating game, right? Needy in the data game is like a huge red flag. And this is [00:15:00] a job Ponce. Cause if you come across, like, you know, I need this job, please hire me. Please hire me. Please hire me, please like me.

Nicola: Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. And I, I know for me, my best interviews, you sum it up beautifully, but my best interviews were always the one where I didn’t need the job. And I was actually, I could probably do another year where I was if I wanted to. And I needed something to pull me out of where I was by being something that was super exciting.

Next step that had, uh, you know, extra salary and maybe some extra benefits around it. That was going to draw me out of where I was rather than, oh my God, please give me the job, please, please, please. It was just like, I, I was so relaxed and in cheese, I probably pushed a bit more and probably, you know, just spoke my mind a bit more.

It’s like you need, I need to know that this is right for me and unique in Australia. It’s a no. So, and then when you’re

Jane: negotiating your salary as well, because if they want, you, they’ll give you more money, more holiday or [00:16:00] whatever it is that you want, you know?

Nicola: Yeah. Always. Yeah. So in relation to this, um, with the great resignation, it’s obviously not a shock or surprise that people have spent the last 18 months working from home.

They’ve been obviously seeing people just on zoom. I’ve had clients that are very senior that have been moved to new organizations or being, um, moved to new teams and they’ve never met the people actually them. So with how does all this play into the great resignation? Just share a little bit about what the great, if someone hasn’t heard about it yet, which I think most people probably will do this, listen to this, but if there’s anyone in my audience that haven’t heard what’s going on with the great resignation at the.

Jane: So we’re whenever you’re recording this and the September sort of beginning of October, 2021. So like you say, the past 18 months, we’ve all been working from home, making connections through our kind of webcams. If you like, even those people that haven’t been [00:17:00] working at home that have been in work. Felt isolated, but in a completely different way.

So maybe down to say social distancing and safety protocols means that they’ve got limited connection with PE physical connection with people as well. Yeah. And then you layer on top that actually there’s all the other stuff that you did outside of work. That was on a social level, you know? So the after work drinks and, um, you know, maybe you’d go for it strategize somewhere, or you just have a.

Machine moment. Those have all gone and people are just becoming less attached to that teams because they are detached sort of physically and mentally. And they’re also just starting to consider options outside their current role. I mean, great people kind of move roles. Yeah. Every two years or so.

Anyway. So if you think people didn’t move because they didn’t know what was happening. So it’s almost like I’m going to stay here because I really don’t know what’s [00:18:00] going to go on in the world. We kind of, you know,

that

Nicola: you said to the devil, you know,

Jane: that God’s overused word of unprecedented, you know, it’s like, I’m not going to S I’m not going to jump because.

They might make me redundant. I’ll get some money or it’s like, oh my God, the whole world’s like upside down right now. And now it’s really not a good time to leave. You know, that’s also been going on. And I think now people are starting to get, to see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel. It may not have been what they thought before that I think can actually, do you know what my, my organization was, was fricking horrible.

You get to see the good, the bad and the ugly of organizations. Yeah. How you responded as an individual, and now you get this, you know, what a lot of organizations are doing is going back to that kind of pair of child’s relationship, which is like, you will be in the office two days a week, three days a week at home.

And it’s like, hang on a minute. People are saying, hang on [00:19:00] March 20, March 23rd, we dropped everything work from home, made it happen, kept the business running, grew the business, whatever the thing was. And now, you know, we figured out how to do that. And now you’re telling me that I’ve got to get on that train with all those people, spend that money, come into an office and do exactly what I’d be doing at home.

But this time in the office, it’s like, no, you can, you can do one Joe gone. I’m off. That’s what they’re thinking. So it’s always this pen top kind of. And a relief or just kind of right. Okay. I can kind of, I got, I’ve got a vision of what the world is going to be like. And do you know what either I’ve just had enough or this is no longer the organization for me or it’s going in a different direction and it’s time for me just.

Say goodbye.

Nicola: Yeah. Yeah. Do we see that it’s shown in numbers and I haven’t [00:20:00] actually looked into kind of the numbers and the stats and

Jane: I ha I think I haven’t seen any actually, but I know it certainly in the UK market, when you tie that in with the end of the furlough program, which will be under September, I think where, you know, we’re waiting for some sort of a tsunami.

I’m not, I’m not sure whether it’s going to be as big as people think, but. Well, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of pencils. Kind of frustration. I think people just want to kind of, you know, change a seed release, a release of some description,

Nicola: for sure. So do you think it’s almost having been through so much over the last 18 months?

Well, and that you’re not as physically in your organization, not as physically connected to the people around you that actually it re reduces almost the attachment to work. So it’s almost opening. Opening your eyes when suddenly you were, it’s not no longer a choice, whether you’re in your house or at work, you have, you, you are in your house and there’s no choice [00:21:00] around that is suddenly becomes a different perspective on life and also making you think that there’s more to life than getting on the train, going into the office.

Even if it’s three days a week versus five, it’s still. It was still more. And I think, I think what I’m kind of seeing from my clients is almost sight. They have this drive that there is something more for them, and that might be a bigger role. It might be a different organization. It might be doing, um, their role within a charity.

Um, or it might be just starting something completely different in their own business. And there’s that sense of I am here. I know I make a difference already, but actually there’s more to it than what I’m doing right now. And that enlightened.

Jane: And I think there’s, there’s a whole load of kind of, you know, HR theory here, when you think about, you know, what people need with the role, what keeps people.

So if you think about actually, how am I, you know, if you’re thinking as you’re, you know, for those listening, your role as a leader in the organization, rather than [00:22:00] for you personally, it’s like, how can you kind of keep hold of your best talent? Because actually one of the challenges is how do I make sure that it’s my best talent that stays.

Yeah, so a great talent that does resign because the other way around, by the way, your best talent will resign. It’s the same in terms of, you know, every time we did, uh, you know, re redundancy, it was the best people who took the redundancy and left. So it’s almost like actually what you have to do as a leader is to create a different environment because what people need is they need to find.

You know, some sort of belonging at work and, and it’s like, how do you, as a leader create this belonging, this attachment, because we all just kind of went off into our own homes, thought we’d be there for, you know, a few weeks. It turns into 18 months and we’ve just kind of. Kind of a loss that, and, you know, we got all excited about, you know, zoom quizzes and zoom.

Bingo. Everyone’s over that now. And it’s like, if I have to, you know, I resigned, [00:23:00] I resigned from roles on boards because I spent all day on zoom. I can’t spend my evenings on zoom as well. So it’s like, how else can you connect that? And there’s also a piece about controls, which suddenly in March, I was given full control on what my desk looked like pretty much, you know, I’ve got to homeschool, I’ve got to be.

Take the dog out. I have my hour of exercise a day. I’ll figure out how to get the work done. And I figured that out. And now suddenly that control is being taken away from me. So this I think is a key role for leaders moving forward. And it’s not an HR policy. This is, this is like, please don’t go right.

Fricking hybrid working policy. It’s about you as a leader, having a conversation with your team about where do you need to be? To produce the output that I need you to produce and how can I help you with that? That is the conversation. That is a conversation we should be having.

Nicola: I love that. I love that.

And that is, that is then compassion. That is [00:24:00] caring. That is sense that vulnerability in that it’s that beyond that, I’m your leader and your, your team members. I actually caring person to person, which gets beyond that.

Jane: Yeah. Everybody has different needs, you know, and, and, and this is not a new concept, right?

We think this is like, Ooh, hybrid working Lu concept. No, it’s not. I was speaking with somebody who helps organizations with this. And the thing that she said, actually I’ve been working. I was working hybrid Lee in the corporate world. Now I was like, do you know what so was I, because when I was HR business partner, my clients, you know, my base was head office at Heathrow, but my client, you know, I, one of my longest placements with was with the Gatwick team.

Now some weeks I would spend two days a week at Gatwick. When we were just about to launch this huge transformational change program, I was there five days a week, you know, other, you know, I’d have one to ones with my manager. Hands-free [00:25:00] obviously on the phone on while I was driving on the M 25 to Heathrow and Gatwick, you know, it’s like, I just was in the, it didn’t matter, you know, then it was just the phone, you know?

I was just, I just was where I needed to be to get the job done. And, you know, sometimes that meant it had to be in his office that he throws, sometimes it meant it had to be in Gatwick, you know, the ND of Gatwick. And I used to have our one-to-one at the lounge in the Sofitel at 8:00 PM at night, because we’re both Nightowl’s and every now and again, we’d stay over because we had late finishes and early starts, you know, so we had, I want to Wallace over a glass of wine in the Sofitel.

Nicola: Sorry, Jane,

Jane: we got such good work, done over a glass of red on some kind of pays,

but

Nicola: then you’re relaxed. You’re allowing your mind to wander. You have that space to be creative. You’re not in the office. Your phone’s not ringing. You’ve turned it off. You’ve stepped away from your laptop. It’s, it’s a different, [00:26:00] the brain mechanisms, you know, the brainwaves, you actually look at brainwaves when you’re relaxed to long and looping.

And then when you’re busy and you’re in your Workday, they’re actually spiking close together. So you can’t have the big ideas in you. Literally the big ideas don’t come in those times when you’re busy and you’re in doing mode, they come in the times when you’re. In that nice hotel, having a glass of wine annual relaxed, and he was just having a conversation.

Yeah, it’s so true. So with the, with the great resignation, that, and it absolutely resonated if I, if I think back to corporate world. And I, I think about when those. Before there was redundancy. So when you get the whisper of redundancies, when you get the risk whisper a reorganization, what would happen would be the best people would basically go and find new jobs that then would give the not so good people, the inspiration to also go and find new jobs.

And actually by the time they actually came through redundancy, some of it was salted in food numbers, people leaving anyway. Yeah. They [00:27:00] were kind of left with, oh, So how can organizations through what’s happening and what’s, what’s likely to happen over the next few months? How can they, how can leaders retain that, that top and that best talent?

So we talked about having that human conversation. We talked about understanding how to support them with the working. They, what they’re working needs are, what other things are there.

Jane: So I think there’s actually figuring out what your what’s going on in your business and what is the talent that you need.

Cause the talent that you’ve got right now may or may not be the talent that you need in the future. So there’s almost, um, you know, and I, I, we did a lot of work on this when I was, um, my last role in British airways was head of talent. So we were looking at, you know, emergency cover for roles because you know, there’s legal requirements, you know, should someone Guildford.

Di Archie was the ultimate thing and that did happen. You know, who can we step in? So short term and then medium term wants two years and they’re three years plus. [00:28:00] In order to do that, you need to know what your business strategy is. You need to know what your, you know, what’s going on with your business, what, what’s the type of roles that you need in your business to be able to succeed in the longer term.

And they, those, those kind of what you just, what you term as talent. And again, define what talent is and your organization. Is it your high-performance? Is it your high potential is everybody. Cause it can, you know, all of those. Definitions, but decide what that is and figure out what’s going on for your organization.

You know, is there a way of actually, what you can do is remove lots of work. That’s kind of a, you know, low level work, that’s kind of arm inspiring either through technology or just by changing, you know, what you’re doing, you know, what are some of those things that, you know, some of those reports gets it, get rid of some of those reports that you, that you have, some of those meetings, you know, Go through your policies and procedures.

What’s the stuff there that doesn’t add any value, just, just remove it, get rid of it. Um, [00:29:00] and then just think about, you know, reinventing the work setting. So you know, the off, so, so the can, this is this real kind of like blinkered view of hybrid working. So people are trying to. Almost squeeze people.

Who’ve been at home for 18 months back into the office environment. And it’s like, no, hang on a minute. When people at back in the office, don’t just pick up the work that they’re doing and get let’s do it in the office. Think about that time in the office. How can you best use it so that she really thinks about what do you want?

The people. To be doing when they’re in the office. Cause you know, this was the conversation when I was at Gatwick. It’s like, there’s no point of me driving all the way to Gatwick, to just sit behind a desk. R and D said, I don’t need a desk here. Well, I’m in Gatwick. I should not be sitting behind a desk.

I should be out with the people. Right. So she refused to have a desk and she never carried a laptop. Right. She’s fricking amazing. [00:30:00] She. I certainly had a desk. She goes, if, when I’m here, I need to be talking with my people and it’d be out of the operation. I need to be. Yeah, no, don’t, don’t give me a desk.

Last thing I want. So it’s almost again, what does, what does your work setting look like? So actually is it about in your office space, getting rid of some desks, having some sort of hot desks? You know, environment and actually having more meeting rooms. Cause the P the point of being in the office is that you’re collaborating, you’re having those kind of one-to-one meetings.

You’re doing training sessions. It’s I don’t know, process design with the team. So actually, how can you reinvent your work setting so that. Coming into work to do the activity you could do from home. So think about how can you create social cohesion, collaboration, connection, and creativity there. So come to work together, not just to do the work you were doing at home plus going

Nicola: forward.

Goosebumps. [00:31:00] I love that. So it’s that when people are together, bring them together for a reason. Um, for something that’s going to be incredibly powerful. There’s no need to be together just for the standard replying to emails, booking meetings, being in a meeting, you might as well

Jane: work, but you should have got rid of

Nicola: yes, exactly

Jane: that shit.

Nicola: So is there a final message that you can give to women working at the top that may be just starting to see. Signs of the great resignation and things starting to start or things already happening in their organization.

Jane: I think there’s almost two things. I think, you know, senior leaders need to look at this from, for themselves and in terms of actually, what do you want to happen next?

Because you are, you know, your, you control your own life. So what’s the next chapter for you and figure that out. And that might be leaving your organization that might be staying. There’s also the question about, so what does this mean for your business and actually, what do you need to be in [00:32:00] that business to take the business forward to the next stage?

So there’s, so I think certainly senior leaders and whether they’re men or women need to have like an eye on themselves and an eye on the business.

Nicola: Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. And three quick fire questions to finish. So who is a leader that’s inspired you through your career and into what you’re doing now?

Jane: Well, it’s, it’s the lady that I talked about who was the, when I was at gateway. I mean, she, I mean, we still see each other today. We, we share the same hairdresser. I actually, I actually saw her a few weeks ago because when I go out, I’m like, oh, Such as such it, oh, she’s coming in on Fridays. It’s like, okay, I’ll pop in.

And we have a one-to-one while she’s got, well, she’s having a, route’s done. Um, and she is a real, um, sponsor, real advocate of mine. And I, you know, I just learned so much from watching how she did things. Yeah. [00:33:00]

Nicola: Oh, I love it. I love, I love that as well. I don’t need a desk. I wouldn’t be talking to people. I want to be in a meeting that is creative or problem solving or doing some of the big stuff.

Yeah, absolutely. And what about book? That’s changed your life? That you’d recommend? So my

Jane: book is, um, called getting things done. The art of stress-free productivity by a guy called David Allen, and there is a whole GT. Cults. It has absolutely changed my life. I was actually coaching. So I, uh, did my coaching qualification whilst at British airways.

And I was a job plus coach. I was coaching people and I was coaching somebody and she was talking about how she has no time to do everything. And I was sitting there thinking. Yeah, that’s me. And I feel such a fraud because I’m coaching you. She talks about, she goes, I’ve seen this book in my son’s bedroom and I just haven’t got time to read it.

And I was like, Ooh, what is it? And [00:34:00] after that coaching meeting, I went on the internet and I just went, oh my God, I need this book in my life. Ordered it, started reading it the next day, implemented it and was just like, OMG, this is like how I need to run my life. So I run my business and my. On this. So it’s just basically capturing everything.

That’s that’s not taking space in your head because your head is for having ideas, not holding

Nicola: them. Oh, I love that. Oh my gosh. That is pretty good. And what is final question? What does find your fire mean to you? So,

Jane: Jeff, this is, I struggled with it. This, this means so much. I think it’s a brilliant title, Nick.

I think for me, there’s something about fire, which is around. Heat it’s around energy. It’s around the light fire gives you so much and it’s just really figuring out what is it that just lights you up, makes you a hot and can destroy all the [00:35:00] crap stuff around

Nicola: you. Yeah, because actually for me, part of my definition and the process, actually, we’re going to burn down the things in your life and in your world that don’t serve you or don’t fit.

You don’t support you to be this leader on fire. So that can be boundaries or saying no. Or getting rid of that load of work or, you know, ditch delegate or do. Yeah. Um, I had a client not, not long ago and she was the marketing director yet. She was still attending. We can develop. Marketing events, but you’re, you’re the global marketing director, you know, you have, you have a family and children.

Why, why are you there? Why are you not, why is that not set up? And you, you know, you work with whoever is to deliver the event, but you don’t need to be there. And

Jane: what was her response?

Nicola: Um, she’s now written a job spec. So she’s started recruiting for the person to do those events. Cause it’s not, it’s not her.

Jane: Amazing.

Nicola: So, yeah, so that find it, it’s finding your flow.

Jane: That’s [00:36:00] the low level. Yeah. So she’s getting rid of that low level work

Nicola: and yeah. Creating space. Exactly. And final question. Where can people find, find you and friendly store Q and just find out more about working with you? So

Jane: I, my, my social media platform of choice is LinkedIn.

So find me over there connect, please do connect with me, uh, cause I post loads of stuff on, um, you know, job hunting and, and little bit productivity thrown in there as well. Uh, all my website, which is just my name, Jane farai.com.

Nicola: Brilliant. And we’ll pop that in the show notes anyway. So people don’t, I I’m obviously Nicholas scorecard for this, so.

Yeah, unusual spellings and usual names. I think you just pop it in the show notes, but if today’s resonate with you, you want to get in touch with Jane. Please do so. Or if you’re a lady and you’re, you’re a woman at the top, and you’re just feeling like you’re a bit lost. You’re a bit start. You were at a sliding doors.

Maybe you don’t know where to go. That’s exactly what I help my clients do to refund that fire and that [00:37:00] purpose, that passion. So do drop me an email, drop me a message on LinkedIn. Can I have a conversation, see how it can help you. So that’s it for today. So thank you so much, Jane. It’s been absolutely brilliant having you

Jane: and, um, thanks Nick.

Thanks for inviting me. You’re

Nicola: welcome. We will see you on the next episode of the podcast of one. Thanks, bye.