Nicole: [00:00:00] hello and welcome to another episode of the female leaders on fire podcast. And we are episode number 24 today, and I’ve got an amazing guest today who I’m going to introduce in a moment, but we’re going to be talking all about wellbeing for women at the top, but probably in a way that you haven’t really thought about it before.

So I’ve got amnesia. And he is had of global well-being for Reckitt Benckiser and he’s going to be introduced himself in a second, but he really focuses on reimagine, reframing, reprogramming, human capacity, capability, and performance in life. Wow. Welcome. And

Andy: thank you very much. It’s a, yeah, it’s a pleasure.

Oh, I’m super

Nicole: excited to have each day. So we kind of, we connected on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago and we had this incredible conversation, I think just had this both like incredibly [00:01:00] excited. Cause we just squeaked out near as though, as we kicked out on psychology and all sorts of things. And we just, it’s just this huge connection.

We have a lot of similar views. So could you just start by just sharing a little bit about the amazing job that you have and what it actually means and what you’re focused on doing as part of your. Yeah,

Andy: absolutely. And, uh, you know, thank you again for the invite. It’s, it’s, it’s kinda nice to knit on stuff now.

And again, um, you know, my background is science and, you know, I’ve got, I’ve got two little boys and certainly the three-year-old is, uh, is full of questions. So it keeps my, keeps my brain active, which is good. So, yeah. So I’ve, I’ve got, I guess I’m on the face of it, the dream job for, for a lot of people.

For me where it came from, it came from a lot of years ago in all honesty. So whilst the job happens, you know, started this year in the middle of a pandemic, I think the journey to get to that as has been a very personal one. So, you know, I was a professional ice hockey player in my, uh, my first career, you know, during my studies, I did a physiology degree and I became [00:02:00] sort of fascinated with science, fascinated by the exploration as to why.

Why, why is it what’s the why behind. Yeah. So what’s the reason behind the effect that you see, you know, and that followed me through my journey through, uh, living in South Africa, which is incredible. Um, back in the UK and then working for racket GSK prior to that, and, you know, I’ve been fortunate enough to work in, in 35 different countries.

And I think that the one thing that I’ve become acutely aware of during that journey is that it’s not because people aren’t capable that they fail or fail to fill themselves. It’s because they lack the capacity to be consistently capable. And I think that’s where the job and the role that racket kind of came from was working with our future leaders, our future.

And realizing that in the best environment, when they were absolutely themselves and well-resourced, they were able to achieve incredible things, but it didn’t take an awful lot to upset that sort of fragile balance, especially when it came to the way that they interacted with each other. And no [00:03:00] matter how technologically advanced the organizations were in our.

It’s still people who are ultimately the influence and the drivers behind that. So I think it’s, um, you know, the role that record is on one side of things, ensuring we operate with, you know, perform at pace, but operate with care, put people first. And then on the other side of things, it’s about how do we use the science of wellbeing to understand.

Reframe, and re-engineer the way that we can perform and the way that we can do so in a sustainable fashion. So it’s a, it’s a fascinating space and plenty of areas to geek out.

Nicole: I love that. I love that. So if we were just start off with just, I would love to hear what, what you mean when you talk about wellbeing, because I think it’s.

You know, in the corporate world, it’s one of those statements. It’s just framed a lot about wellbeing. Isn’t it? And it’s just, it’s quite often I think misrepresented or misread interpreted and it’s that, or I’ve got my steps in today or I’m eating well, but I loved when we just squeaking out was just before we started chatting on the show.

Just [00:04:00] your definition of it. So can you just share a little bit

Andy: about. Yeah, of course. So, so I think in a lot of cases, wellbeing is, you know, people will say, I want to be fair. You know? So it might be, I don’t know, people want to get, you know, the beach body or people want to lose weight or people want to be fit, but they very rarely ask the question fit for what?

And when you look at wellbeing, it’s about being fit for purpose fit within. Now that doesn’t doesn’t mean from an aesthetic point of view, it means that, you know, well-being for me is about being sustainably resourced from a personal social, emotional, and mental perspective. So that not only do we have the resources to do the things we want to do, but we have the balance and consistency in our emotions.

To make informed choices about what we pursue and then have the energy with which to do so. So it’s much more than being kind of free from disease or a yoga class or the tick box things. A lot of corporates focus on for me, wellbeing is what enables the consistency of mood and the balance, [00:05:00] instead of in terms of our choices and behaviors, to allow us to pursue what we aspire to.

I

Nicole: love that. I love that. So for me, what I hear that is it’s almost like a new level of wellbeing. It’s like a new depth it’s beyond that, you know, your health or your statics, it’s actually into the emotional, it’s into the energetics, it’s into how you want your data flow.

Andy: Absolutely. And you know, the big challenge with that is that the further we get into this zone or this, this, this sort of new, a newer thinking is that.

The less tangible. It becomes the less easy it is to measure with the traditional corporate metrics. So when you look at wellbeing, things like compliance and how many, how many people are doing a private. Really doesn’t make it gives, you know, it gives the, you know, the bean counters, a little bit of confidence, a little bit of security that we’re getting what we pay for.

But the real thing we should be looking at is what’s the impact that we’re trying to affect. And how do we want this to be able to allow people to access a new and better level of [00:06:00] sustainability and a better version of life that they can live with.

Nicole: Yeah. So I love that. I love, but what, what would you say then?

What is your dream, do you think for wellbeing within where you are right now? What do you see as the potential for having that impact at that, that deeper definition of wellbeing? Yeah,

Andy: so I think that on the, on the simplest sort of level, it’s. Acute acute self-awareness. So, you know, for me, I suppose, what would my dream be?

It would be that leaders are able to firstly, you know, take care of themselves or people, and everyone’s a leader. That’s why I sort of use the phrase, but people have an acute sense of themselves. People have an acute sense of their own mood and how to interpret that they’re aware of the triggers that can influence mood and how those influences changed their bias and their.

Ultimately where we want to get to is that people are behaving consciously and consistently, which builds trust, which builds psychological safety, which creates an environment that is open and where people [00:07:00] can bring their best selves and innovate and collaborate to build on top of each other.

Nicole: Yeah, absolutely.

So I kind of see that. So my find your fire program, the first part, and I’m, I’m, I’ve started in you, we’ve new corporate this week and it’s all about leading from the inside out. So rather than needing externally by what does my boss need? What are my peers working on at the moment what’s going on my team?

And that’s all really important and that’s part of being a leader, but yeah. As we talked about when we had our initial call, it’s like, we’re all a leader of one. And that starts with you. And that starts with understanding yourself, starts with you, understanding what my make you feel like you have less energy or less fulfilled and owning that.

And it’s not like you said, When he sent you a summary is about, rather than looking at capability and performance and developing skills. It’s actually about that understanding of yourself. And for me, what, almost like an inside out approach to being a leader.

Andy: Yeah, no, no, absolutely. It’s I think it’s about, you know, [00:08:00] I think I used this sort of analogy before, but it’s, it’s understanding yourself.

And for me, when we look at things like mood, mood is basically your body’s way of signaling to you. How fit are you for your environment? So, you know, if you had a, you know, a polar bear that’s, you know, in the polar ice caps, it’s going to feel very comfortable. It’s behavior will be predictable. It will do the things it normally does.

You put that polar bear in the middle of Madrid, you’re going to get a very different animal. Um, and I think, you know, it’s, it’s so stark, but if you think about the way we are programmed as human beings, our affinity for blue and green and the contrast, our affinity for lights, our affinity for oscillations as we go through the day and you look at how we are.

Currently spend our days. We are literally the polar bear and Madrid. Um, you know, so I think when people talk about leadership inside out, and I think from your perspective and the way you articulate it, I think it’s the right lens. I think the challenge is that when a lot of people talk about leadership inside out, they think purpose, there are so many people who are aware of what their purpose should be.[00:09:00]

But as so sort of achingly far away from being able to access and service that on a day-to-day basis. And for me, a lot of that comes from ignoring a lot of the signals that exist along the way to enabling us to fulfilling ourselves on a daily basis.

Nicole: And I think. My, obviously my program is find your fire at a huge part of that is purpose, but that’s, that’s our fifth module.

We actually start with knowing yourself. We start with understanding your feelings, allowing yourself to feel cause we’re we also seem to be taught from an early age. You don’t cry. I was told in corporate world you’re over emotional you’re over-reactive you’re over-sensitive, it’s all of it’s too much.

Or when I was really passionate, cause I’m very passionate about the things that were important to me. It was like, well, it comes across as aggressive, overly direct. It’s like, well, if you want passion, that’s part of what you’re going to get from me.

Andy: But, but this is, this is a really interesting bit BITNET because one thing we know about people who are under-resourced is [00:10:00] from a wellbeing perspective is that we’re very, very good at picking up on other people’s moods.

We’re very poor at picking up on our own. So if you’ve got, lots of people are saying to you, Nick you’re like this NICU, like that. I guess the flip to that would be, do they know themselves how they are, you know, where they’re at today? You know, I talk with a lot of people when we talk about leadership, when we talk about how you show up, and everyone has a, to do list on a day-to-day basis, but very few people have a, to be on that.

Now for me, you should have it to be that exists at the end of each day and fuels the next day. So if I was to say to you, you know, who do you want to be at the end of the day? Are you going to be fulfilled or you’re going to be proud. Are you going to feel a sense of achievement? Are you going to be humbled?

Are you going to be exhausted? Who are you going to be? Because it’s that B that you get at the end of the day that fuels your sleep, that fuels your food choices, that fuels your rhythm, that fuels how you show up the next day. And that for me is the bit that, you know, people who are expected themselves to operate in [00:11:00] environments, that aren’t conducive to what they want or what they believe.

That to be lax on a daily basis. And all you end up doing is just winding down, winding down, and it’s not sustainable

Nicole: place. Yeah. Not at all, not so one of my favorite things say is we’re not human doings, we’re human beings. For reason, we focused on the doing, especially the women that I work with women at the top was so that doing and getting things done, and it’s just, they’re safe.

That’s their safe mode. That’s what they know. That’s why they’ve done so well, but actually there’s a whole. Another element to it that that many of them are missing and they’re adapting behaviors of others because. That, not that focus on being and letting themselves take time to think, or to indulge in what they’re passionate about or just sit and just watch some rubbish, bubblegum TV.

That’s okay.

Andy: I, you know, I, I, I say that one of the things I firmly believe is that, you know, I believe that we can do more than we’d ever imagined by [00:12:00] being more than we’d ever appreciate. I believe that we can do more than we ever imagined by being more, we never appreciated. And there’s a reason for those words.

And that do is often used as the barometer of success or achievement or delivery in a corporate world. If you are, if you be more and you appreciate yourself for who you show up as, and who you be on a day-to-day basis, that’s where the sustainability comes back. You know, you talked about your, find your fire for me, purpose is often the spark, but the other piece, which for me as well being is that is the.

So you can have a spark and you can strive for a purpose, but if you don’t give yourselves the consistent fuel supply, then you will fall short on a daily basis. And it will be a common unattainable goal, which then leads to a lack of fulfillment. So I think that the two things really do go hand in hand and you see so many people who as well as that.

Want to do the things that they do, but to really achieve the dizzying Heights that we, some of us aspire to, [00:13:00] you’ve got to be able to give discretionary effort. Now, discretionary effort involves you having the choice, but also the free capacity to be able to give more than you feel you might want to, or you feel you can, you know, it’s a bit like the Simon Sinek piece where he says, you know, if people believe what you believe, they’ll give you your blood, sweat, and tears.

It’s true, but that is discretionary effort. You know, you can’t force people to give discretionary effort on an ongoing basis, which I think is where a lot of corporates are falling short.

Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There’s a couple of things I wanted to pick up on. One of them was just around environment.

And just, if you imagine, like the different, the changes that we’ve all seen through lockdown down, and let’s not use the C word for the pandemic. Everyone’s life has been affected. Everyone’s life is different wherever you sit in an organization. And if we geek out for a moment on the neuroscience, the brain just sees different.

It has a makeup for every single emotion. It’s always blows my mind. Every single emotion is simply an [00:14:00] ingredient and recipe. So if you’re feeling a certain way for you to feel fulfilled, you already have a recipe and a set of ingredients for that for you to feel on purpose for you to feel energized for you to feel passionate.

And I think we lose a sense of that. We lose some of those ingredients by just naturally how we working at the moment and that it prints in that change. And I think the other part of what I loved about what you said is almost I help women to find that purpose, that passion, that excitement when they’ve lost that.

But actually if you don’t have the basics, if you don’t have what I call feel good foundations, you don’t get to access that you don’t get. How can you keep that focus and keep that drive? And that. Excitements a gap in the morning, if, where you’re working from you, don’t like, or if your boss has been particularly challenging at the moment or your peers, you feel like you’re in competition rather than connecting to them.

And it’s, it’s those foundations, isn’t it? That it’s so important to help you, I suppose, the deeper well-being piece that you talked about other [00:15:00] foundations to driving on to really fulfill that purpose and that passion. Yeah,

Andy: no, no, absolutely. I think, um, you know, the wellbeing foundations are. Yeah, for me, absolutely foundational.

I mean, if you look at, you know, kind of Maslow’s needs hierarchy, just to kind of geek you and raise you on otherwise is, you know, at the bottom we’ve got, you know, there’s the safety and security, but at the top, there’s, you know, self-actualization, which is about expression and experimentation and, you know, those things inherently require risk.

So, if you want to express yourself or experiment that in, in essence means taking a risk and trying something where the outcomes are not, no. Now we have a pro pre-program negativity, biases as humans, as you will. Well know. So that’s something which requires us to accept another layer of risk. Now, when you track all the way back through Maslow’s hierarchy to the bottom, If, what we’re looking at in terms of our foundations is already [00:16:00] incorporating more risk than we’re used to, then that additional risk becomes almost, you know, unsurmountable.

It becomes something we can’t process a can’t accept. So even more. So there is the need for us to focus on our wellbeing foundations in order that we give ourselves that stable base of mood, and we’re not talking, you know, the Instagram happy faces and all the rest of it. We’re talking just a little bit, right.

Of positive. Just a bit like a little bit, right. Of media. Which is, you know, just consistent content, you know, and that’s what we should be aiming for. I think the challenge with what we’ve been through the last 18 months is that people have felt these incredible lows and try to balance it with these incredible highs, whereas really where we should be trying to get to.

It’s just north of the middle or just right of center, which is just that contentment level. But like you say, if people have either not experienced or a forgotten the recipe for what gives them that contentment, then it’s an emotion, it’s a mood. That’s quite hard for them to identify with even, you know, let alone recreate.

I think when you look [00:17:00] at women in the work environment, we’re all programmed definitely. Right? Whether it’s women or men or, or whatever, however, we identify. Every person is an individual and every person will have a slightly different mixture around what gives them that contentment. But I think that the thing that maybe is, is, is jumping out or, or what tends to jump out is that when women are in the workplace, they’re mix for what gives them the contentment or, or feel good, or that fit is perceived as being something that’s.

Not appropriate or not, not right or not normal. And the reality is it absolutely is. It’s just, everyone’s different. And I think the more that we can embrace that, the more we can recognize that if we can ensure that the ingredients for that contentment are more readily available, regardless of who it is, then the more we can get the better out of ourselves and others.

Nicole: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I do. I love, I love the idea if you think about it as well. I think we’re going to just end up trying to out [00:18:00] geeky chart with a different person every day. And this, again, this always blows my mind. I never meet the same client. Even though they’re the same person. Cause it depends on how well they’ve slept, what they’ve eaten, how stressed they’re feeling, what they’ve got on in their diary that day, where they are in their monthly cycle, how their hormones are at that.

It’s allowing yourself to be that person in that moment and just respond to. Just what do I need? So just the practice that I suggest to my clients, when we’re going through this process of getting reconnected with yourself and being that leader of you as a start point is just a daily morning check in with how do I feel today?

What is going on for me today? And what do I need to do? Because it might be that you need a non-AP it might be that actually, I really want to get out a move actually today. I need to just claim some time back. So I’m gonna just move a couple of meetings. Yeah, no,

Andy: I, yeah, I’m really, I was going to say that.

I’m glad you said [00:19:00] it cause it’s, um, it’s that for me, that the sort of the, the barometer of this is not just being able to recognize your, your stress tells as we sometimes call them, but recognize when you’re not in your best, best space. The next level on that is being able to do something about that.

And then even better riff is being able to self-regulate so exactly, as you say, if you wake up, you might have had a, you know, a poor night’s sleep. We know that with, um, a loss of sleep, our cognitive focus really suffers. We know that our bias, our negativity bias really. Which means we will perceive things with a more negative slant.

Our behavior as such might be less inclusive, more closed, et cetera, et cetera. So the even better, if is if you recognize you’re either not in the right zone of focus or you can’t show up as the person, who’s going to be the right person to be there. Is being able to shift that or have that conversation to say, you know, look, it’s probably better to do it another day.

You know, I want to give you this part of me. And at the moment, you know, I’m, [00:20:00] I’m, I’m struggling with that. I think that the stigma we’re fighting against, or the stigma we have to address is that. That’s not something that’s you that normally happens in a corporate environment and, you know, rightly or wrongly, I think there’s been a reluctance in men to do that.

And to be that for whether it’s, I don’t know, whatever the fear is, I tend to think I’m quite an emotionally connected person as somebody who’s quite congruent and genuine and authentic with myself. But a lot of people don’t have that. And then on top of that, I think women probably do have more of a sensitivity to understand where they’re at themselves and be more comfortable with maybe displaying that.

But, you know, I think we should be looking at that as, as a positive thing, because it means that you have that level of consistency and congruence and trust and transparency and all the rest of it, you know, is it better to go into a meeting? As you know, storming in a bad mood with everything else trailing behind you and destroy the meeting, [00:21:00] or is it better to say, look, I’m going to be 10 minutes late.

You know, I, um, RD who was, uh, one of our, uh, VB plate IVP and he, you know, he would say, look, it’s better to turn up 10 minutes late with the right. Then 10 minutes on time with the wrong one. And it’s so

Nicole: absolutely, absolutely. I suppose it’s, there is two parts to it. Isn’t those? That is the individual wellness and understanding, but there’s also the corporate.

Cultural and societal kind of shift that’s needed to know that actually it’s okay. I love what Bernie brown talks about as well. When she talks about dare to lead and she, in their team meetings, they start with going around the room and everyone’s encouraged to share two words about how they’re feeling.

Yeah. So you are, you can identify that yourself and know how it might impact you, but also for others to understand, actually on this particular day, I’m tired or on a particular day, I’m already angry because of something that’s happened at home. It’s not [00:22:00] related to this at all, but I’m still, still angry.

And it’s, it’s those two parts, isn’t it. And it’s that challenge. How do you bring that into a corporate world where it’s almost like the hard skills are recognized and accepted and encouraged that, you know, let’s make you more capable. Let’s help build your skillset. But actually what will probably have been perceived traditionally is more softer skillset.

Mm actually. They are, that’s a skill in itself to have that, have that understanding, to be able to share, know how you’re feeling and then be able to share and also to be able to encourage that culture for other people.

Andy: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s, it’s really interesting cause we’ve been doing some work with a company called Hinsdale.

Um, hence of performance, who, um, they work with Lewis, Hamilton, and Mercedes and various other sort of, you know, big organizations. And, you know, they take a lot from the world of sport. And I think what the world of sport gives you, it gives you almost the acuteness of where these things come together and the effect that they [00:23:00] can have.

And, you know, you look at any of, you know, Usain bolt or whoever else. He’s trained and trained to train and train and train, you know, he can run the, you know, the fastest hundred meters in the world. Yeah. It’s not so much about that. It’s about who can get every point of that energy, that motivation, that focus, that purpose, that psyche, that mood everything in the right space at the right time for the right moment to make it happen.

I did a, a program with, uh, the exclusive Cotellas group. You know, called the flock and it was looking at how do we take the lessons from endurance sport and apply them to insurance business. And it was interesting cause never, I’d never heard of the phrase insurance business before, but then we start working with mountain is we worked with, uh, people who’d rode the, you know, the road, the Atlantic Pacific.

And we started talking about this concept of false summit. And about how do you keep your people going when the summit you think you are going for that appears to be further away at higher up. But one of the things that he said to me, a guy called Nick, you know, one of the sort of, I think he’s done the north and south pole.[00:24:00]

Single-handedly all the rest of it. He’s like an incredible, incredible person. But he said to me in business, when do you get. So, what do you mean by that? So where did you get strong? He said an endurance sport. We take rest days, we take breaks. You know, if we’re sat, halfway up a mountain and we haven’t got the energy to go to the top, we don’t go to.

Because the, you know, the, the collateral will be too much. And you kind of look at that in a corporate world and you think how many people walk into a meeting or consider before they walk into the meeting is my impact in this session going to be positive or negative is the way that I’m going to treat someone or show.

Going to get to actually move things forward or move us back. And, you know, I think that’s the thing when, you know, when we go into these, you know, into these sort of sessions. And when you think about, you know, women and leadership, I think women do think more about that. I think they are closer and more connected to how they feel and you know, that.

The sense of fit with the environment. They’re more [00:25:00] acutely aware of it because for so long, they’ve been made to be aware of that. And I think that’s a good thing, you know, it’s a good thing that we’re aware of it and we could learn a lot more.

Nicole: Yeah, definitely, definitely. And I love how you’ve talked about kind of marrying up the, kind of what I call like the hardest skillsets with what’s perceived as that softer kind of feelings and awareness and understanding, and actually those two together.

Uh, where you get that strength from where you get that ability to be resilient and carry on. And when you said about full summits, I was just thinking about every launch that I ran in the corporate world. You guarantee the week before something, something horrific would happen and the wheels would come off, it was just part of a loan.

Something would be found out or there’ll be a major issue, or we can get stock, or there’s a system failure. That was getting through. That was almost harder than the actual launch itself. And that was always the resilience to get past that and manage my emotions through that as a person kind of leading it or,

Andy: yeah.

So, but that, and that’s the key [00:26:00] thing it’s, you know, quite often you can go into autopilot, you know, you’ve got the skills, you’ve got the savvy, you’ve got the business understanding to fix things. The thing that’s the hardest to do is when you’re. Under-resourced from a wellbeing perspective when you’re tired, when you’ve got that, that lack of cognitive focus and cognitive capacity and your emotions start to run on your moods, become something you’re not consciously aware of.

That’s when things start to fall apart, because that’s when people start to pull back, that’s when people start to become skeptical or lack of trust or whatever else it might be. You know, w we’re programmed to, you know, to, to survive ourselves. And no matter how harsh that sounds, our brains will always do.

What’s right. Yeah.

Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I don’t, I don’t know if you read this article. I think I’ve mentioned it a couple of times on here, but there was an article in the New York times it was called languishing. It was all about languishing. It was written by a psychologist, can’t remember his name.

And it was basically describing how things have been for the [00:27:00] last 18 months and why, even though we’re coming out of it, a lot of us are feeling quite mad. Quite things feel quite hard. It feels like we’re wading through mud to do the things we normally do. And it’s that, that midpoint between, we’re not at the moment in as, as a, as a, as a kind of wider audience, if you like, we’re not in that state of thriving, but we’re no longer in that immediate frightened surviving we’re in this middle point of languishing, which is, I think why the focus today and wellbeing is so, so important that we’re in this middle point of thing.

It’s okay. But I’m carrying 80 months trauma and change and resilience and tiredness with me right now.

Andy: No, absolutely. And you know, I, I, again, to go back to kind of Maslow’s knee Tarik hierarchy kind of thing, a lot of the things that we used to rely on, or we did rely on for, uh, social and psychological safety for our barometer to understand how are we fitting in the environment, little things like being on a zoom [00:28:00] call or a teams meet.

Instead of a physical meeting we’ve we still, haven’t got a lot of those cues that help us to understand how do we fit. And when you don’t understand how you fit, your mood will, you know, your mood will fluctuate and every time your mood does that, but you’re expected to be one person who’s consistent in a zone, in a meeting, in a company you have to suppress and then manage that mood.

And that takes an incredible amount. Mental energy. So one of the things that we talk about a lot is that mental energy. How do you manage that as you go through the day and how do you give yourself a little bit of a break? Things like downtime and being idle are incredibly important to us. You know, one of the things we did as part of a pilot was we did a stress recovery diagnostic where we would, we will basically an ECG.

We overlaid it overall outlook calendars, and it could tell you which activities, which meetings on what subjects. And which, which, which recovery. So for me, you know, one of the things that was actively recovering for me was walking toward one-to-one phone [00:29:00] calls. So not teens calls, phone calls. And what I found was I could oscillate through the day so that when I got to tie to bedtime, I was already going into recovery zone.

So I got a fully. Full night, proper recovery. And these are the sorts of things that I think we’ve still got to wake up to incorporate that these are not just nice to have. So this is not just our nice to have, keep it at the side. Look after our people. This is when we talk about the ability to do incredible things.

It’s about enabling us to be incredible human beings.

Nicole: Oh, gosh, I love that. I love that. And just for women at the top, particularly if a woman is at the moment conscious that she, maybe she’s not focused on her wellbeing, um, I’ve talked about in previous podcasts, like self-care, isn’t selfish. It’s actually.

You know, you demonstrating your value where, for example, where could they get started? Cause it might feel quite overwhelming right now to start to, you know, really focus on you. What are some tips for them to get [00:30:00] started?

Andy: I think for me, the biggest thing is, um, with any of this self-awareness right? Most people know if you were to go out into the street and say, how much sleep do you think you stop?

Most people know it’s kind of like seven to eight, seven to nine hours. If you get four hours, is that bad? Well, most people know that’s bad, you know, same with what we should eat, et cetera, et cetera. So a lot of people know that stuff. The challenge is that it becomes daunting when I know what I should be doing, but for some reason I keep failing every day or when you’re at the top, you know?

So if you’re a woman at the top, Obviously aspire to be a certain way. And that means that we start to overlay this kind of pressure layer on top of ourselves, sort of said, well, if we don’t hit these 10 markers of success all back to you talked about, you know, the ingredients for contentment. If I don’t get all of those in a day, then I’ve failed.

So the first thing I would say is don’t set yourself up to fail at 10. Set yourself up to win at six. So that, that would be the first thing. Think about what are the six things as I go through the day [00:31:00] that enable me to hit my to B vision at the end of the day. So if it’s contentment, is it a phone call with someone who matters to you?

Is it, you know, having five minutes during the day where I take care of. You know, so little pulse is like that. There’s a, there’s some really readily available stuff around circadian rhythm. So how do you also, like during the day, most people you mentioned, you know, menstrual cycles, that kind of thing that will be influenced, you know, so women will have as well as a circadian rhythm that will shift according to the time of the month.

So the biggest thing that you can do as well as when it, when it’s six, instead of 10, Get a pulse on yourself. So set yourself points during the day, do it for a week and set yourself a point every two hours and just check in and say, how do I feel? What’s my mood. And that doesn’t have to be, you know, it could be the bread, a brown thing.

It could be two words and then reflect on the end of the day and see how does it fluctuate as I go through the day. And they will be my two big bits, because once you’ve got that, [00:32:00] a you can set yourself up to. And, you know, what are the things that really contribute towards contentment, not achievement, contentment.

And then the second piece is if you can become acutely self-aware, then you can start to self manage and self regulate. The challenge is if you’re not self-aware you can’t do any of the better stuff that exists beyond that. So when at six, instead of losing it 10 and then regulate yourself during the day, pick six points and check in on yourself and see how.

Love

Nicole: it love that. And for any men that might be listening though, all say men at the top, how can they, obviously that applies to them as well, but how could they support female leaders at the top with their welding?

Andy: I think for me, it’s, um, We’ve already said, you know, I, I don’t think there’s a massive polar shift between men and women, but there are certain traits, certain behaviors that are more prevalent in women or men, vice versa.

I think what I would say for men and certainly the way I [00:33:00] try and look at it is, you know, look at when you do come into contact with a female leader, someone you work with, appreciate them for what they bring. So the table not benchmark them against what you would do, but appreciate them for what they bring because that other lens, you know, the, the sort of the, the, the different lens, the different perspective, the different experience.

This is where the richness of having men and women together, working in collaboration comes from because it’s not polar opposite. It’s about even better. If so, the more that you can listen and start to feel what the woman is saying, as opposed to validating it, the better you’re going to be able to take onboard that, harness it, and really collaborate and innovate with, with someone that as a, as a true, a true.

Nicole: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think all of that is probably another podcast episode about kind of creating more of a coaching type culture of curiosity and openness and learning rather [00:34:00] than knowing, and you know, all of that, that much more sense of openness. Um, and yeah, having that thought. So three questions just to finish off with, first of all, you have a final message to share today.

I

Andy: think my final message to share today was I think I would say the same thing that I said before, you know, work on the belief that you can be more, you can do more than you’d ever anticipated by being more than you’d ever appreciated and focus on those words. You know? So anticipated is about what you think is probably.

I appreciate, appreciate yourself for who you are, because who you are, will enable what you hope is possible. So be more, you know, do more than you’ve ever anticipated by being more than you’d ever appreciate it. That would be my one message to people. Give yourselves a bit of love

Nicole: and just finish off the three quick fire questions.

So first one, bang is [00:35:00] a leader who’s inspired you.

Andy: Ooh, a leader who’s inspired you. I would say, Ooh, that’s a tricky one. Right? So I would say I’m a leader who’s inspired me. Honestly. It’s inspired me by the way that she’s taking care of, uh, nurtured. So many incredible people that I’ve met through their organization.

So she’s, she’s a lady called Alison store galley stalk. She’s the, uh, the wife of a guy who I’ve become very good friends with, but she. The way, I think just, just a sense of, cause a sense of purpose, a sense of belief in the best of people. You know, she’s not the most outgoing person in the world, but she’s most definitely one of the most authentic open and.

Genuinely caring people, I think I’ve ever met, but she does it from a place of strength, not necessarily a place of softness. Um, you know, she’s [00:36:00] inspiring. She’s, she’s engaging, she’s inclusive, but she does. So by equipping herself with the knowledge and the perspectives to enable other people to step up.

And I think the one thing that hit me was I think I’d known her. I’ve met her like twice. And I was not in a great place in my life at that point in time. And she said to today, my wife and I now Fran, she said, we need to Avanti for dinner because we need to get him out of that situation. And they did, and we did, and my life changed and you know, I’ll be eternally grateful to her for

Nicole: that.

I love that. I love that. It’s that empathy, not sympathy. Isn’t it. And understanding and sensing. Yeah. Um, and can you share a book that’s changed your world, big fellow geek. I’m quite interested in this. I think

Andy: that the one thing for me, and it’s, it’s not sort of rocket science, but it’s called the core and it’s by, um, Dr.

Rocky hints. So it’s, it’s actually the book of one of the partners we’re working with and he was, uh, he was a sort of, uh, And sort of [00:37:00] Ethiopia on a, on a mission. And, uh, he ended up working with highly Gabrielle Selassie, the, uh, famous distance runner. And one of the things that’s in that book, which was really inspiring for me.

So the core is about how you, your sense of purpose, your sense of gravity around your life, but then also how you balance the elements of wellbeing to enable that. Uh, one of the things he talked about, which I thought was fascinating was, was why is it that the Kenyan distance runners are so incredible at what they do yet?

They lack all of the sophistication and science and support and resources that the Western runners do. And when he was asked this question, he said, because if you were to ask an American runner who he is, he would say I’m an Olympic. If you were to ask a Kenyan runner, he’d say I’m just a family man who runs.

And so every aspect of, and I think, you know, if you think about, you know, us in the modern world, you know, I I’m a. Who also is passionate about enabling people to realize their [00:38:00] potential. You know, I’m not the global head of wellbeing and that’s what I do, but who I am is a dad. Um, you know, I think so that, that just that perspective and the pressure it relieves in terms of expectations on ourselves, but the empowerment it gives in terms of where your sense of cause and sense of motivation comes from, I think is a really important.

Nicole: I love that. I love that. And finally, what does find you fire mean to you?

Andy: Oh, my, my fire, I think is, um, it’s the one thing in your life that you are not prepared to allow to be dampened. Um, and I think for me, when I think through my life, the times that have been the toughest, the times that I felt most compromised and most down or the times when I know that I’ve allowed.

As situation, environment or someone else to dump on my flame. Um, but it’s also the thing. When you think about your TBI vision, it that’s exactly what it is at the end of each day. Have you allowed and [00:39:00] enabled your flame to burn, burn bright? That’s.

Nicole: Wow. I love it. I would just want to say huge. Thank you for today.

People would like to hear more about what you have to say, where can they find you? Probably

Andy: LinkedIn’s the best place. So I’m sure it will be, uh, the, in the, uh, the, in the, uh, the blog, but yeah, please drop me a line. I’m always happy to continue this conversation and explore other perspectives. So, yeah.

Nicole: Yeah. Oh, thank you so much for say it’s been absolutely brilliant and everyone, listen, I shall speak to you on the next podcast. Bye.

I took about really resonates with you and you love what I have to say. And you have moments and flashes of inspiration from the podcast. I would invite you to get in touch, to find out how I can help you. So individually, that can be through my coaching focus program for my VIP program, depending on how you like to learn and what will suit you, or I can help you in your organization to really help the women that you work with [00:40:00] across the organization at all different levels.

And at that very senior level to really feel empowered and to know that they can reach the very, the most senior levels in that organization and to give them the. In who they are and the clarity and what they want to be able to get there. And we do that through workshops, do that through leadership programs, and we can do that.

Free consulting work. If you are looking for help with any of that, drop me an email nycla@nicholasschoolco.com. The spelling is not the easiest. So all the details are in the show notes results I get for clients. Clients have been promoted twice in the six months we’ve worked together. They’d been invited to join the board.

They’ve gone from redundancy to being offered three dreams. They’ve gone from being pushed out of an organization to going into bigger organization and a bigger role with a bigger pay rise and just a quote from a client that particular. I’ve gone from the pit of despair. When I started working with Nick to just being really fucking happy and she is an incredibly empowered leader.

Now, if you’re not quite ready for that, you can [00:41:00] download my overwhelmed on fire guide the details that are in the show notes, but that really helps you everyday to stay in your fire. So it helps you to clear your head, helps you to come back to what’s important to you, and it helps you to have that most impact and influence every single day.

It’s a little Quip sheet that you can just go through and take. So go and download that. Or you can subscribe to my newsletter, which comes out every Friday, which is a Roundup of the week. Really. So what’s going on in my world. What’s a blog for that week, a quick video, that’s going to help your particular subject.

And it’s all about helping female leaders to find their fire and also stats and, and any research from the industry as well. And things that I’m reading the. Um, recommendations that we’re making. So go and subscribe to that. And finally, for the podcast, if you haven’t done so already, I would love you to go and leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode.

And you’re always going to have the win that release and doing that as well. Not only helps you, but it also means that [00:42:00] we’re going to reach more women and we’re going to be able to start that revolution to helping female leaders to keep that. Find that fire and keep it. So keep that passion, that purpose side excitement.

So if you haven’t done that already, please go and do that. Thank you.