Speaker 1 (00:00):

[inaudible]

Speaker 2 (00:13):

Hello and welcome to the female leaders on fire podcast. And I’m super excited today because I’ve got a brilliant, brilliant guests for you. Um, but first of all, just to introduce myself, so I am your host, I’m Nicola Buckley, and I am the coach for women working in the corporate world at that very senior level. I help them to refine their fires, that passion, that purpose and that excitement, so they can have more impact and more, have more influence. And as a result have more income, but also as part of what they do become a real force for good and drive change in the corporate world to create more piracy and equality. So today I’ve got brilliant guests, and I think we’re kind of at a point now where lots of businesses are starting to get back to work after the summer. And also a lot of people now are moving back into the offices.

Speaker 2 (01:04):

So I have got a brilliant guest for us today. We’re going to be talking all about leading with impact was working more flexibly. So it might be that you’ve gone from working in the office quite long hours. And now you might be, you might have a garden office, you might have a desk in your lounge. You might have your own office in the house, but the world of work has changed more than ever. So today I’ve got a great guest. Who’s going to be showing her tips on ways that you can leave. So will that impact, uh, whilst working more flexibly and also to talk about how to make flexible working work for you and what it actually means to have that company-wide support for people to work in a way that works for them. So whether that’s a modern woman or anyone across the gender spectrum, how to have that, that work-life balance so that they can indulge in their passions outside of work, they can support their family.

Speaker 2 (01:58):

But also when they’re in work, they’ve got that support to do what works for them and have that flexibility. And obviously the pandemic has changed entire world are working so hugely that I just think this is a huge subject. And I know for women, it’s had a huge impact on their visibility, huge impact on just the amount of work they’ve been taking on at home and that invisible workload tend to carry. So I just think this is going to be a great, great episode. So we have got a lady we’ve got Nicola peas on with me today. I’m a NYCLA. I’ve been really fortunate to work with her before as a client of mine. And she is a lady that I’ve seen her just develop on our own journey to really find her fire, so that passion and purpose. So she now helps businesses and organizations and individuals to really work more flexibly and have that impact. Um, and she does that through her business, which is in ignite. There we go, got it, right, ignite, consulting, and coaching. Um, and she’s helping organizations to really see how they can make flexible working work for that employees, but in a way that it means that they’re still profitable, they’re still growing and they’re still, um, the things that need to be focused on all getting done. So welcome to the show today. Nicholas, I’m super excited that you’re here. We’ve had a few technical hiccups, but we’re here now.

Speaker 3 (03:17):

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me on, and this is I think my first guest podcast. So there you go. Nice to be here.

Speaker 2 (03:23):

Excellent. Excellent. So Nicole, just to start us off, can you just in your own world, you’re probably going to be a lot more eloquent than me because you’re the expert in what you do. Just tell us a little bit about your business and how you’ve come to be doing this brilliant work now to support organizations and people finding what works for them with flexible working.

Speaker 3 (03:42):

Yeah, absolutely. So I have a corporate HR background, so I was a head of HR at a very well known, very large global company. And then I went off and had my babies. So I had two little boys and after I’d had my second, I started talking to them about going back to work and we were talking about flexible options and they wanted to work less than full time. And it was just evident to me that not only in the HR function, but across the whole organization, there were really limited options for flexible work in, at a senior position. It was almost like, well, if you’re in a senior position, it’s expected that you are available 24 7 and you belong to us, you will be available when we need you to be available. So I, um, I have a little mantra, which is if you don’t like it, change it.

Speaker 3 (04:33):

And so I decided that I needed to change it up and I would go self-employed and I would kind of strike out on my own, uh, doing coaching and HR consulting. And then I found you really helped me. So I joined, uh, I joined one of your coaching programs and that really helped me to just cement this like fire in my belly, which is around, you know, it’s not just about changing it for me. It’s about changing it for everyone. So if I can work with organizations to help them be more flexible, to create more flexible work in, then I can also help hundreds of women too. And not just women, men, and everyone else to have the flexibility that want to have the life that they want without having to sacrifice their career. And that’s, so that’s what I do now. I help organizations to kind of, I call it, finding that sweet spot between what an organization needs to thrive and where your employees need to thrive.

Speaker 2 (05:31):

I love that. I love that. It’s so powerful. Isn’t it to S it’s a win-win right? Because no one benefits from people getting burned out and exhausted and then end up in that place where they’re resentful about that work. It just doesn’t help that doesn’t help anyone.

Speaker 3 (05:45):

Yeah, absolutely. And I’m, I’m fascinated at the moment by the kind of social experiment that we’re under. So there’s obviously there’s been this huge rise over the last, I don’t even how many years of mental health deteriorating in the workplace and, you know, people burning out, we have stress and anxiety. And I just wonder how is that, how much of that is linked to the way in which we’ve been working, because we haven’t given ourselves time out. We haven’t enabled ourselves to get that balance, right? Whether that’s because we have a family and we’re trying to kind of balance that kind of parenthood with work or whether it’s just, you know, physical exercise, mental wellbeing, like we, when not taking breaks during the day, because we’re a commute, we were previously, we were commuting to an office sitting in the office nine till six, thank you.

Speaker 3 (06:37):

Meeting back again, you know, eating late in the day, et cetera. Just some of those fundamental basics around how we might look after ourselves. How is the way that we work in is, is that what’s resulted in kind of this huge uplift of people that have had mental health issues. I wonder maybe going, maybe going forward. What we’ll see as we move into a new way of work is that we’ll, hopefully people will be more able to have that choice because a lot of organizations are thinking now about how they work, but also what I’d like to see, what I’d love to see is that we have a, it has a positive impact on mental health.

Speaker 2 (07:16):

Absolutely. So I was supposed to do some research before speaking to you today and just some of the stats that I found just around. So we’ve got, we’ve gotten from organizations being based in offices, and it’s a big investment for our organization to have these huge offices I’ve worked in, um, obviously in the corporate world for 16 years. And I, I know that it’s, you know, one of the biggest investments was in, in that the HQ and it almost became, um, um, an example and, uh, uh, the more fancy your HQ, almost the batter you were doing, the more you invested in it. And obviously we’ve gone from that to building, sitting empty and people working from home and just looking at the mental health impact that some of the stats were 80% of Britain Brits feel, and Primus had a negative impact on their mental health. Um, 67% saying they felt less connected to their colleagues, 50%, 56% saying they found it hard to switch off and have that time away. But then if you follow on from that only 34% of people asked, had been given mental health support from their employer through this huge change. How do, how do those stats kind of reflect in the work that you’re doing? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:20):

So w I’m seeing that as well. Um, so I’m seeing that where M’s interesting. So I did some research at the start of the pandemic in 2020 and English. Initially there was this view that actually kind of mental health had improved because people were, um, you know, they weren’t commuting, they were spending more time with their family, et cetera, et cetera. They were having time to exercise. But I think the longer this has gone on the more blurring there has been of lines between home and work. And I think people remote burnout is something that I’m seeing quite a lot, both in organizations that are either where people are experiencing it, or the kind of more forward-thinking organizations that are starting to get really worried about it and saying, well, how do we make sure that in, you know, in this new way of work in, when we’ve got some people in the office and some people at home that we’re making sure those people at home are still taking breaks, uh, like finishing on time are not kind of working until late into the night because they’re at home and they feel like they have to justify that working style.

Speaker 3 (09:22):

So I’m definitely seeing that play out and yeah. In the organizations that I’m talking to. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:28):

I ran a female leadership program this year with a corporate that’s just finished recently, and we were talking about it because that was going to be a face, a lovely face-to-face a program where we would be getting in together and do workshops, having that energy and connection. And obviously then it all went online and some of the women were saying things like, I take my phone now to the bar for him in case I’m called out, or I will one particular lady. I remember she, she didn’t have children. So she would start relatively early to get ahead of people before they came in. Maybe people that dropped off their children from the school run, she would then work for the day. Um, she wouldn’t always have lunch cause she got so absorbed in work. And then she sounded later because a boss had children. So her boss was back online later.

Speaker 2 (10:11):

So she had working hours with Jeremy from about eight, till about eight or nine when we went through it. The other thing she found really hard is that she, she had a smaller flat that she lived in. So she was walking past her laptop, her work laptop, because it was on a table in the kitchen. So the simple things we worked on with her was to at the end of each day, close her laptop at the end of each day, put that away. But also knowing that her hours, hours doesn’t need to match what her bosses working or anyone else’s working, if she was getting the things done that she needed to. And it took a huge, huge shift. And I think those couple of examples were real example, real, really hit home for me about how much impact it’s had on people, working from home and things that we hadn’t thought about around boundaries and around you work your hours, you don’t need to do more because your work for you when in the office, do you ever take your back to the bathroom? Like, it’s just, why is it different now? You’re at home? Why are you not trusted in the same way?

Speaker 3 (11:07):

It’s that? Yeah, it’s that always on kind of mentalities and it it’s that. And I think, I think it comes from a place of mistrust certainly before the pandemic biggest single factor. I’d still say now probably, but the biggest single factor in terms of why businesses didn’t support more flexible work in and working from home was because they didn’t trust that people would actually be getting on with their job when they are working at home. And I think that that kind of culture of mistrust had, has kind of, even in this scenario has driven people to be like, oh, well, I, you know, I, I’ve got to prove that I’m working from home. I’ve got to show that I’m still, you know, I’m still available and I’m still online. I’m not shirking off because I’m working from home and there’s this that has been for many years.

Speaker 3 (11:51):

I think there’s been this stigma of, oh, you’re working from home on a Friday and what it’s interpreted as, oh, you just started your weekend early where it’s, you know, I’m sure it’s not for, you know, I remember, uh, in an organization I used to work for, we implemented what we called working smarter and it was all about basically allowing people to work when, where, and how they were going to be most effective. And some of the conversations with the managers were, were around, well, how will I know what they’re doing when they’re not in the office? If I can’t physically see them and having conversations with those managers as very senior leaders of that organization going, how do you know what they’re doing now? How do you know what they’re doing now? When they’re sat at a hundred, you know, a hundred desks down from you or they’re in a meeting room, you know, 99% of people go to work to do a good job.

Speaker 3 (12:39):

You will always get 1% of people who will be under performers or won’t be, I won’t kind of, we’ll take the mic or whatever, but 99% of people you can trust to do the job you give them to do. And I think what’s been good in some ways about this pandemic, as it, as it sort of busted that myth, that people are shirking when they’re working from home, but for some, for some people, and it depends on organizational culture for some, there still is this kind of feeling that I need to prove myself. I need to prove that I’m working. I need to prove that I’m going over and above. And I wonder if there is part of that is in maybe the female psyche as well around is it that we, we feel we need to prove ourselves more anyway. And so now we’re working from home and, you know, through the pandemic it’s been well-documented, hasn’t it that that women have taken on the majority of the, kind of the childcare and the domestic responsibilities. Is it, have we got that in our minds that we’re feeling like, well, they’re going to be thinking I’m looking after the kids or putting the washing on, or instead of, you know, focusing on the work that I need to do. And there’s something that’s subconsciously making us feel that even more so we need to prove ourselves.

Speaker 2 (13:50):

Absolutely. I think certificate comes back to almost something that I’ll be covering in a future episode, but almost over-giving. And over-giving to the point that you’re on the irony of that over given and that need to, I need to prove myself. I need to prove myself, was you almost, you know, when we were in the office, it became kind of presenteeism of always being there. And if you have the equivalent, now I’ve always been online, but actually in an ironic way, you kind of becoming invisible either kind of become that you assumed you’ll always be there. You will always be the one answering. You will always be the first to reply. You’ll always be, you’ll just always be there. So the irony is that, that over-giving, and that what was presenteeism that now is just being online constantly, you become kind of invisible because you are constantly there. So your input isn’t as valuable because it doesn’t have that same level of impact.

Speaker 3 (14:39):

Yeah, I think that’s, um, I think that’s, it it’s that feeling of particularly is it’s around visibility as well. Isn’t it? It’s, I’m not, I’m not physically being seen. So how can I, how can I create that kind of presence when I’m not physically in the same space as, as the, you know, the other leaders or the kind of the chief execs or whatever, it might be

Speaker 2 (14:59):

Slightly. So we talked a little bit about, obviously we focused on women on this podcast, but we know, you know, recognizing as well that it’s had a huge impact on, on, on the world work and everyone within that. And I again get the geek that I am, and I do like to research, but looking at, I was looking at the gender pay gap around the proposal that I was putting together and the gender pay gap before the pandemic had come down to pay, um, come down to a hundred years. So if everything continued in the same direction or gender pay gap would be closed in a hundred years, which for me still feels, you know, it’s a century away. We’re talking about my daughter’s daughter’s daughter would experience that, but actually during the pandemic, those numbers have gone up. So they’ve gone, it’s gone back up to 136 years. So have you seen an experience kind of that having more impact on women? Yeah,

Speaker 3 (15:48):

Well, I think, um, I think some of that is driven by a predominantly female based sectors. Um, so if you think about like the hospitality industry, the retail industry, um, a lot of those sectors have obviously been decimated through the pandemic. Um, what we’ve seen is women kind of suffering more, or be more likely to be made redundant. For example, they’re more likely to have been made redundant. They’re more likely to have been on furlough. They’re more likely to have been asked to take pay cuts or reduced hours when they have returned into an office environment. And I think that has had a huge impact on the kind of disparity of the pay gap and kind of the setting backwards of that male, um, kind of equality. But other than that, I think it’s, I think it’s not just about sectors. I think, I mean, I got my little soap box, but if we read it, [inaudible]

Speaker 2 (16:50):

Definitely,

Speaker 3 (16:50):

Yeah, we do. If we want gender equality and linked with kind of flexibility, which is obviously my bike, we’ve got to have flexibility for everyone. It needs to be, it needs to become normal that as many men, as women are working flexibly in the office, because only when it becomes that normal in that case, we’ll actually the gender, the gender pay gap and gender equality be where we need it to be because before then we can, there’s always this talk of, oh, well, there’s more women that are part-time. And that impacts on the page, the pay gap, there’s more women in lower paid jobs because they can’t get flexibility in higher paid jobs. And I think we need to step away from this idea that flexibility is only for women. It’s not it’s for everybody. We all have lives outside of work. So whether that is that you are a parent or whether that is that you just want to play golf on a Friday afternoon, it really doesn’t matter.

Speaker 3 (17:42):

It’s just, we have lives outside of work and we should be allowed. We should be able to plan work around our lives and not the other way around. And that, you know, if we have flexibility for everyone and it becomes normal that, you know, Joe is out of the office because he, um, is training for a triathlon. So he doesn’t work every Thursday or, um, you know, Fred is out of the office because he looks after his children one day a week. Like, wouldn’t that be great to hear stories about? And I think if we can encourage workplaces, I’m living the shift of hybrid and flexible working because it is, it’s definitely opening doors and it’s opening up new ways of working and new cultures of, oh, actually we kind of, yeah, we can do this. Why haven’t we done this previously? We need to just make sure that when we’re moving to these new, new ways of working when not inadvertently disadvantaged in women, so we are more likely to be doing the domestic responsibilities.

Speaker 3 (18:37):

We are more likely to, if we’re mothers, we’re more likely to be doing the kind of the child, the majority of the child’s care. And that means that we’re probably less likely to be in an office. And so you’re going to create this disparity between your kind of your men that tend to be in an office more often, and the women that are at home more often. And in that case, how do you as a female leader, how do you ensure that you’re still part of that in-group and not seeing us as the kind of out of sight out of mind type person? Yeah. I’ll stop.

Speaker 2 (19:10):

No, absolutely. We love it. Absolutely. It’s just it’s I love, I love hearing people in their element and in the fire and that the thing that, you know, the impact that, that that’s their passion. So absolutely. So with female leaders, obviously being at that disadvantage and also, you know, with it continuing the, it might, it might continue to be just a bit more of a challenge. How do you think female leaders can really embrace this and make it work for them still have that impact and influence?

Speaker 3 (19:40):

I think, um, well, many ways probably, but I think I would start with thinking about what their own work style is. So how do they want to work? How, what is their preference around when and where they want to be working? Like when do you work best? So I’m a morning person. I work best in the morning. If you talk to me by like four o’clock in the afternoon, my brain is just foggy. That’s it, me at 7:00 AM and to be full of ideas. And, uh, whereas my, my partner is the complete opposite. He’s like, he comes alive at seven o’clock at night. That’s when he has all of his ideas

Speaker 2 (20:15):

At nine o’clock and I’m already getting,

Speaker 3 (20:25):

Um, so yeah, I think it’s about, I th the key through I’m I always, I’m always like, keep it simple. The key to making hybrid and flexible working work is know yourself. So know what you need to work well and what your preferences are, and then know your team. So also know how your team work best, know your people within your team. So what do they need to work well, when do they work at their best? What level of support do they need from you? So if they’re working remotely, do they need you to be giving them a task and leaving them to it for the rest of the week? Or are they the kind of people that would get more from a little kind of sense, check, check, you know, chat every day, or how’s it going? Do you need any help with this and understanding your team and how they work is really fundamentally what will, what will make it work?

Speaker 3 (21:13):

You can put all of the structure around it, but it’s knowing yourself and knowing the people who work for you. And, and then you can, you can take it from there. If you know that someone is, uh, you know, is going to prefer to come into the office, you can plan your activities around when you’re going to be in the office to be with that person. So they’re not felt they’re not feeling isolated. And if you know that someone prefers to work from home, you can plan for, um, how are you going to connect with them? Are you going to do it? You know, when, how frequently are you going to connect with them? When are you going to kind of zoom chat or whatever it might be to actually still have half that impact

Speaker 2 (21:48):

Or anything to add to that just about managing upwards in terms of keeping the level of influence that you have more easily and more naturally in the office.

Speaker 3 (21:58):

Yeah. So I would say in terms of managing upwards, there’s a bit around that understanding, understanding your kind of upwards, let line and their working preferences and how they might work and adapt. You will need to adapt your style slightly, potentially to, to suit that. So if they are people who want to be in the office all of the time, I’m not suggesting that you should be in the office all of the time, but you certainly shouldn’t be remote all of the time because that, that will create a kind of just a barrier between yourself and them in terms of how often you can interact with them. I would say it’s about, it’s kind of about transparency. So being transparent with them around when you work and how you work, but asking the same from them, when do they work? How do they work? And it there’s this, you know, like the kind of leaving loudly type concept of really being really open around, how, how do you work best? How can I work best with you? This is when I work. When do you work? Where do we work? How do we work in the same place at the same time and planning your activities to see those people, whether it’s virtually or whether it’s in person. So you’re still having that visibility.

Speaker 2 (23:06):

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So who is doing, what are some really great examples of remote working and leadership and impact

Speaker 3 (23:16):

For leadership? There’s quite a few, there’s quite a few, there’s quite a few organizations that seem to be leading the way at the minute. So I don’t know if you’ve heard about Unilever. So Unilever have almost ripped up their old contracts of employment and they are now having a new contract of employment, or they’re having three different types of contracts for employment, where you can effectively choose the hours. You work, the location, where you’re going to work and the types of projects and activities that you’re going to work on. And I think just in terms of ripping up the playbook and starting again, I think that’s phenomenal to see from an organization of that size who could have easily gone. Well, this is too hard, you know, we’ll just have people come back to the office two days a week. They’ve kind of gone completely, completely the opposite way.

Speaker 3 (24:00):

And then another organization, um, that is, seems to just lead the way when it comes to flexible working is the FSTs. So the financial compensation scheme service am I on the wrong way? Round SES, David he’ll kill me. David Blackburn is the chief people officer, and I just loved, they’ve created a culture and have implemented something that they’ve got a principle, which is every job is flexible. So every job from the top down is completely flexible and they have it as a, they call it your day, your way. So you pick again how you want to be, how you want to work, where you want to work, and when you want to work and it it’s throughout the organizations, it’s not like you see in some organizations where that’s true apart from the top kind of two levels of management, and they are expected to be in the office and be working nine to five and then some, so David himself, for example, as the chief people officer, he works a nine day fortnight because that’s what works for him. So he takes every other Friday off and worked longer hours in between to make up for it, because that allows him to do what he wants to do outside of work testing.

Speaker 2 (25:07):

I love that. I love that. And what have been some not so positive examples,

Speaker 3 (25:13):

Not so positive example. Yeah. Well, in the news, the not so positive example is Goldman Sachs. Like just, no, don’t get me. I can get on another soap box. So

Speaker 2 (25:26):

Alan Twitter comment as well. It’s about time. We all got back into the office and cracked on, we work type quite wasn’t it, you see that as like, yeah, I don’t really embrace in flexible work for what people need, Alan, but if you want to go in the office, no.

Speaker 3 (25:42):

Yeah, absolutely. So the companies that are not doing so well are the ones that are demanding people come back into the office. And, um, and, uh, you know, in Goldman Sachs case, you know, they had a whole bunch of kind of junior traders who complained that they were working 90 hour weeks on average, and that they were having no home life. And the answer to that was to tell them to get one with it and to pay them a little bit more money. I don’t think so. That’s not the way you’re not going to keep those in the long term. Exactly. You’re going to just burn them out and then that’s not good for anyone. I don’t really understand them. They’re crazy. But I would say actually most, uh, you know, to be fair, most of the organizations I work with or I’m coming across, even in the media right now are kind of, they’re embracing it.

Speaker 3 (26:27):

I think they’re embracing this as certainly hybrid working is a new way of working. Some are being stricter than others. So some are dictating kind of, you’ll be in on a Monday and Tuesday, Wednesday, and often, not in the office Thursday, Friday. Oh, there’s a say in, you know, we want you work whenever you come into the office. If you want to come into the office, work from home, if you want to work from home and there’s a whole, a whole spectrum in between, but I would say most, most organizations seem to be embracing it. It’s, it’s the, it’s the, whether it turns into reality will be, there will be.

Speaker 2 (27:02):

Yeah, well, we’ll be in a yeah. Yeah. Six months time. Yeah. I do think it comes back to, like you said, it’s, it always splits in for two with, with the corporate world. For me, it splits into what’s the support and the structures behind this change. So for this, obviously with that more flexible working, so what’s the top-down kind of organizational structure around it. And then the other part is what that individual, each individual taking responsibility and knowing ultimately works, what works then, like you said, kind of natural cycles. So I know for me at the moment with some health issues and just my energy that I work better earlier in the week, and I worked better in that earlier in the morning. So if you talk to me at four o’clock on a Friday, I’ve got nothing. Or you’re probably Midtown was on a Friday, but I, you know, that’s, I’ve then adapted and evolved my work very much fit with that. So it’s, it’s the two together, isn’t it? It’s, what’s the structure and what’s the structure and the support. And then me knowing what works for me and feeling confident enough to ask for that and knowing that I can. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (28:05):

Absolutely. Do

Speaker 2 (28:06):

You have any final thoughts for us?

Speaker 3 (28:08):

The final thoughts? I would just say in terms of how you know, how to have impact and how to kind of lead flexibly is just trust. I just say, just trust yourself, know yourself and trust your people that they want to do a good job, and they will do a good job for you and you can’t go, can’t go much wrong with that. Really?

Speaker 2 (28:30):

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So just to finish off, if you could give us an example of a leader who’s inspired you.

Speaker 3 (28:38):

So I’ve got a couple, but I’ll go, I’ll go with one that’s on topic. So I’ll go with Claire Walker and Tanner Essex. So two liters actually, but they are kind of, for me, they are like the shining example of how you can make a job share work in, uh, in it. So from a flexibility perspective at a very senior level. So they are now co-executive directors of the chamber of commerce and the British chambers of commerce. And they started job sharing about 10, 12 years ago when they were in a fairly junior level management position, they’d both been on maternity leave. They came back and they decided to job share, and they have progressed together jointly as a job, share through the organization to now effectively lead it, um, and run the whole, uh, the whole show and to do that as two females in a job share, I think he’s just a shining example of how flexibility can work really well.

Speaker 2 (29:31):

Yeah. I love that. And then obviously having a huge impact and influence massive.

Speaker 3 (29:36):

Yeah. Massive. Would you

Speaker 2 (29:38):

Share with us a book that has changed your put

Speaker 3 (29:41):

This change my life. So this will come as no surprise to you and it would be Brenae brown dare to lead. Just love it, love it, love it, love it. And tell everybody I’ve ever met to read it. I think,

Speaker 2 (29:57):

Well, what did you get from it?

Speaker 3 (29:59):

Oh, God. So much. I think it was just that. I think it was that vulnerability piece. It was that feeling. I think I read it at a time in my life when I was kind of in a senior management position and feeling like I had to be someone else and just get sort of just gave me permission to be myself and to, uh, to show my vulnerabilities. I loved it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just be authentic.

Speaker 2 (30:24):

Final question. What does find your fire mean to you?

Speaker 3 (30:27):

It just means it’s like igniting that passion in your belly. That’s how I would describe it. It’s um, it’s kind of, it’s kind of what you did for me, nuclear. I’m not like, this sounds like it’s a promotional thing, but you know, when I, when I met you, I was thinking small and I was thinking that I wasn’t capable of changing the world all by myself. And I’m, you know, I’m still not sure I’m capable of changing the world all by myself, but I, God, I want to that’s, that’s the fire in my belly that I, you know, I want to change how we do things and I want everybody to have flexibility. And why can’t I be, why can’t I use that passion to, to kind of do something good? Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (31:10):

You already are. We already are.

Speaker 3 (31:13):

Okay.

Speaker 2 (31:14):

If you are interested in working with NYCLA, what we’ll do, we’ll pop her contact details in the show notes, um, so that you can get in touch with her. Um, and that’s it for today. But if you’re interested in working with me on finding your fire, you can drop me a message on LinkedIn. Um, my email is over in the show notes, so that’s it for today. Thank you so much for joining us. Bye.