Speaker 1 (00:00):

[inaudible]

Speaker 2 (00:10):

Hello and welcome to episode 15 of the female leaders on fire podcast. I am your host. I am Nicola Buckley. I am the coach who works with women in the corporate world at that very senior level to help them find their fire. So to refine that passion, that purpose excitement has helped them to get where they are, but to do that in a way where they’re not sacrificing, they’re not compromising and they’re not neglecting themselves. And all of that means that they’re going to have more impact. They’re going to have more influence, feel more heard, and have more income as a result and be a real force for good within the corporate world. So today is a subject that comes up again and again and again for my clients in their own way. But it’s something that I just see is the cycle that so many women just go through it again and again, when they’re in those very senior leadership roles and that’s over-giving and the cycle of over-giving.

Speaker 2 (01:02):

So what do I mean by the cycle of over-giving? First of all, if we define over giving over giving is just taking on more development opportunities is doing work that’s outside of your actual job remit. It’s doing more at home. It’s taking on responsibility, maybe for the children, for the meals, for looking after the house, with the dogs for more widely across your family, maybe caring for elderly parents as well. And over-giving in a way that means you’re at the very bottom of your priority list. And what do I mean by it becomes a cycle. Over-giving becomes a cycle, especially at work, because if you are giving so much of yourself, you’re actually lessening your impact. You actually have less visibility and you actually become almost invisible because you’re giving so much, you’re constantly there. It’s just assumed that you’re going to be there and over-giving will make you have less impact and become invisible over time.

Speaker 2 (02:02):

So your voice will become less heard because you’re always there. You’re always responding. You’re always giving so much, and it is not the way to have that impact and influence that you want to yet. So many women naturally fall into it and we go back to it because it’s our comfort zone, because it’s what we’re used to. We’re used to giving so much of ourselves. So today I’m going to be talking about what over-giving is, why women tend to fall into it. What’s the neuroscience behind it. What’s actually going on. I’m going to share some examples from my life, but also for my clients so that you can see that you’re certainly not alone. If you struggle with this and what is the big impact. And actually if you, that constant over-giving when you’re giving so much yourself is going to lead to exhaustion. It’s going to lead to burnout.

Speaker 2 (02:48):

But on top of that, you’re going to start to feel really apathetic about your life and your job. You’re going to start to feel frustrated in your job and not fulfilled. You’re going to start to feel resentful about family time. So really over-giving is about noticing it and reclaiming that time. And we claiming that energy for yourself. So I’m going to be sharing five ways that you can stop the over-giving cycle and break that over-giving cycle to really come back to you, to focus on you, to give yourself what you need when you need it. And there’s also a couple of models that I’m going to show you that I think will really, really help. So let’s start at the very beginning. Let’s start with a definition and being the geek. I am going to the English dictionary and having a look at well, what overviewing is actually, what is the definition sits behind it?

Speaker 2 (03:37):

And actually, it was quite interesting when I looked this up earlier, um, it’s actually the action of handing over or surrender, which really, for me, it almost reflects back that so many women are over-giving and almost surrendering themselves to what everyone else needs, rather than picking their PR them as a prophecy there at the bottom of the priority list. So what does over-giving actually look like? What are some examples? So this could be going above and beyond your job role to be noticed. So those extra development opportunities that you say yes to those projects are outside of your area that you want to work on so that you can feel heard and you can feel notice it might be being the first in and the last leave. Well, back in the days we were in the office. Anyway, I know that that was something that I often did just those overly long hours and almost that presenteeism, which is different.

Speaker 2 (04:32):

Now, we’ve kind of hybrid working and working from home, but you’re the first to respond and you’re constantly there. It might be that you’re doing something else in someone else’s row role. As you know, it get done in the way that you want to do in the time that you need to. It could be that you’re putting your partners, your sons, your daughters, your dogs, your cats needs before your own, that you’re at the very bottom of the priority list and everything that relates to everyone else comes first. And then if there’s anything left, you get the last parts of your time and your energy. If there’s anything actually available, it might be that you’re sacrificing what you want to give your partner, what they need. And you still keep giving more. It might be that you’re saying yes, when you know that actually your, your voice and your head is saying, no, I can’t do that.

Speaker 2 (05:19):

And you have no time or energy or want to do that thing, but you’re doing it because you feel like you can’t say no. And it’s a begrudging. Yes. It might be giving advice and being the friend, who’s always check it in. Oh, the Delta, that’s always there for the parents, even when you don’t get that back. So there’s that energy is always going out and you’ll never getting anything back. It might be that you’re not pushing for the job title and the promotion to fit with a level of work and the team that you run. So you’re already at a more senior level. You’re already acting. And you’ve your doing the things at that more senior level, but actually it’s not recognized you don’t have the job title and the promotion to fit with it because you already, it’s almost like why, why do they need to, because you’re already doing it.

Speaker 2 (06:02):

And if you’re nodding along and you’re guilty of any of these and you’re, you’re absolutely not alone. I know for me, I am absolutely a, a recovering over giver. So when I worked in the corporate world, so I had a 16 year corporate marketing career worked for big household names, running multi-million pound launches. And that was in the days when you were in the office, this is 10 years ago, nearly now. And then you were in the office. And I would go to the gym in the morning, most mornings, and then I’d be at my desk around 800 per state. And I would generally be leaving. I wouldn’t generally leave before six o’clock. So there was that real presence is what I was always the first to reply to emails. I was always the first to respond. If it was something that needed is sourcing out.

Speaker 2 (06:47):

So almost by doing that, I became a visible, not only was I not, I was sort of the bottom of my own priority list. I was not giving myself time at home. It was not committing to making a social life after my divorce and separation. So I was not helping myself with that. And I know that many, many of my clients also really struggle with over-giving so particular client that I worked with for a long time, when she, when we first started working together over forgiving for her looks like just never being able to switch off. She didn’t have anything that she loved doing, that it wasn’t work or wasn’t her Emmy that she was studying for. And she was married and she wanted a family, but she just, she found it incredibly difficult to switch off. So she was either in work working, or she was thinking about work.

Speaker 2 (07:38):

She had a big job, or she was working on her ma or she was thinking about her AMA and she con she just could not switch off. We had a lot of conversations at the very beginning about just really how much she was giving of herself to everything else and how there was nothing left for her or another client that I worked with as a VIP client for a long time. And when we first started working together, she was in a very senior sales role. And she was very much feeling like she needed to prove her worth demonstrate her value. And part of that was that her phone was never off. And she had, she had some responsibilities that meant that she was a escalation point if something went wrong, which meant that she had a phone on over the weekend, but with a phone on it, just her work phone, all, and it just meant that she never switched off over the weekend.

Speaker 2 (08:27):

She never had those boundaries. And she then ended up working on a Saturday morning just to check in on a few things. And then she would do some work on a Sunday to prep for the week. So for her, we really, really worked on setting those boundaries. We worked on having for her to have an escalation structure that meant that she could be contacted, but in a different way. So she didn’t need a work phone and she didn’t need to be constantly on. And she didn’t need to be constantly worried that if she went out and did something that she’d have to get back and do some work anyway. So that was a huge change for her. I had another client of her. The over-giving was just one thing, still wanting so much from her career being incredibly capable. And she was actually asked for an interview for one of only three legal positions in the UK.

Speaker 2 (09:10):

But along with that came over, giving it home almost to compensate for that one of her to keep progressing her career. So she felt guilty. So it meant that she would then just be almost falling over children and giving so much of herself and doing Apsey everything for them. And as they were getting older, not allowing them to develop that independence. And she just had this constant feeling of guilt. So she was over-giving and actually for her part of that as well, that guilt was actually comfort eating. So those are all things that we helped her with by helping her to see that actually is a big part of our identity as part of the values to have this incredible career progressing that, but also she could ask for help at home. She could ask for more support from her partner and things really, really started to change for us.

Speaker 2 (09:58):

She saw her value and worth not only as a wife and a mum, but also as this very senior figure in the legal profession. So if you are struggling with over-giving, you’re certainly not alone, but what’s actually behind it. So when we’re over-giving, why, why are we generally over-giving? Is it that we’re hoping for a turn and what we give, are we wanting to feel appreciated or loved? Is it needing to feel good about ourselves? Is that quick hit of dopamine? We want it to be seen as the person that’s stronger, smarter, wiser, the person that can manage or is incredibly capable, is it that we think no one else is capable of us? So we have to do the thing. If we, if we don’t do it, it doesn’t get done in the time or the way that we wanted to, or to believe if we do something, it will ease a feeling of guilt.

Speaker 2 (10:47):

And actually, if you look at the drivers behind over-giving, there’s really two main ones. So I know for me, I’m a recovering over giver. Um, and especially when my marriage breaking down, I didn’t want to face things at home. So I went into over-giving mode at work. I was staying longer. I was doing more, I was taking on more projects and it just meant that I was so busy at work. I was kind of protecting myself. It was numbing my feelings by taking so much on that. I didn’t have time to think. I didn’t have time to feel. I didn’t have time to see that my marriage was over and that I needed to do something about it and never allowed myself to have time. And actually over-giving was almost a form of protectionism. And that was me hiding away from the reality of how I fell and just, just what was actually going on in my life.

Speaker 2 (11:36):

And for me, what felt safe, where it felt that I was capable, I could do so much and I could have this great impact, but let’s just really think about what is behind. Let’s get into some nitty gritty of like, why do we over-give and what is actually going on? So, first of all, let’s, let’s look at the nearest sites. So a neuroscience geek, I love neuroscience for the women that I work with. It’s always such a relief to understand what’s the brain looking for when it, when you’re doing certain things or saying certain things or feeling things that don’t help you to get to where you want to be. So then your science behind over given when it comes back to a particular part of the brain. So the brain breaks down into three different parts. So you’ve probably heard of your animal brain and there’s the mammalian brain and the human brain.

Speaker 2 (12:20):

So the animal brain will go into all of these free on a completely different show. Cause I think it’s quite relevant to how we’re feeling at the moment. And it’s, it’s just really incredibly helpful to know which the brains you’re in, when you’re acting in a certain way that maybe it’s out of character. So the part of the brain that relates to over giving is, is a social part of the brain, which is the mammalian part of the brain. The second part of our brains developed. So when we lived in caves were caveman cave women, this part of our brain developed so that we could survive. It was part of our survival in, there’s not the very basic safety, survival mechanism. That’s in your animal brain. This is your mammalian brain. So it was really about making sure that we stayed as part of a group, because when we’re part of the group during that [inaudible] time, we were more likely to survive.

Speaker 2 (13:04):

So the social part of the brain really was looking for where we sat in the social hierarchy. Are we safe? Are we part of a group? And that for women lately into thinking about, he said, she said, I think they think feeling judged. What will people think of me, everyone else coming first? Because that part of the brain, the mammalian part of the brain is bigger and women. So women are hardwired to care more about what people think we are hardwired to really focus on everyone else’s needs first. It’s not just you, it’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility to change. But there is that driver within women in that part of the brain. That just means that we are more conditioned to think of social needs first and everyone else first. So proportionally, that is a bigger part of the brain in women than it is in men.

Speaker 2 (13:54):

So it just means that there’s a natural driver behind all of this. So like I said, this isn’t your fault, but it is your responsibility to be aware of and to change and to break the over-giving cycle. Because as a leader, if you give so much of yourself, you’re going to end up burnt out, exhausted, frustrated, resentful, apathetic, and actually the world needs you to be, to be really stand in your power and own your impact and influence by being just to really by really trusting yourself and just owning your impact. So another couple of points just around, what’s going on, what’s what’s behind the over giving. It can be a learned behavior that you saw growing up. For example, maybe one of your parents was an extreme over giver for a reason relating to their childhood. And you’ve kind of inherited that framework gang.

Speaker 2 (14:43):

So you’re emulating that behavior because it’s what you saw and what you, what you learned as you grew in what you’re now modeling for your own children potentially, or potentially maybe it’s that you grew up in a family where you didn’t feel as noticed. So actually by over-giving you felt like you could be noticed, you felt like you were doing something good for the family. You felt like you were being something positive in the family, but all those two really kind of talk trauma responses. So over-giving is eyes, heart, a trauma response. And when I say trauma, I don’t just mean trauma, this trauma with the little T and trauma of a capital T. So we weren’t going through all of that stay, but the trauma of a small T is something that is almost like a belief that you’ve had inherited from your parents that doesn’t serve you now.

Speaker 2 (15:30):

So you’re acting out based on that old framework. And then the other biggest reason that I see a gang in a gang that women over-give even in those very senior female, those leadership roles is that it’s a feeling of not being enough. And you’re searching to feel enough by giving so much yourself to demonstrate your value constantly. It’s what Britney brown would call hustling for your work. So really it’s it’s that you don’t believe that you deserve the role that you have. You don’t believe you’re clever enough or talented enough. So it’s really, it’s almost like the it’s, it’s the symptoms of imposter syndrome that over-giving to kind of demonstrate yourself. And it’s sadly, it’s an epidemic amongst so many women who grew up in my generation in that kind of hard work generation. And I know I was, I grew up, you work for what you get.

Speaker 2 (16:22):

Um, and I was very much taught if you want something, you work for it. So I have this hard work mentality that I don’t know. I used to really struggle if I didn’t have what I wanted, I would just work harder for it. So you’re forever giving more. You’re giving more advice. You’re giving more time, you’re giving more support to others. And you’re so used to working hard. That is your norm. It’s your comfort zone and you work hard and then you work harder. And it’s all part of wanting to be notice, wanting to be hers, wanting to demonstrate that you’re ready for the next level yet. The irony is the more that you are there, the more presenteeism that you have, the more that you’re the first respond, the more that you’re constantly there and giving so much yourself, you lessen your impact. You have less influence.

Speaker 2 (17:11):

You’re not as heard. You almost become invisible because you’ll just assume that you’ll be there. So it’s really down to you to reclaim your time and energy and break this over giving cycle. And I would also challenge you to think about is if you have no idea of what it would take for you to feel enough, you have no way of measuring. So you’ll keep going down the road that you know, which is working hard and over-giving and giving more and more and more. And we think back to, again, part of the hard work generation, it’s almost a sign of love that you’re so generous, or you’re such a hard worker. You kind of praise you appraise for it, and you were recognized for it. I know that. I certainly remember that. And it’s still part of a culture, not a framework of where women were raised to give more and more and to think less of their own needs and have others give before you take, for example, and not to pursue needs and wants that we have, that might upset other people because actually, you know, who are we to do that?

Speaker 2 (18:12):

And there’s this brilliant, bright quote from plan and Doyle, actually just standing in your power saying no to over-giving and being discerning of your energy will only threaten the people who feel entitled to and dizzy take from you. So if you are over-giving and people are used to that, it will take time and it will take a course correction and maybe a reaction from them to reset where you are. So we’ve looked at over-giving, we’ve looked at the definition, the examples we’ve looked at what’s actually going on behind it. Um, I’ve shared about my example, but also from some of my clients. So what can we, what can you actually do about it? What can you do as a woman at the top? If you’re over-giving, what are the steps you can take to change that? So point number one is to recognize the signs.

Speaker 2 (18:58):

So I talk about this a lot, but almost to think about what are the warning signs for you? What’s the warning lights on your dashboard that you’re over-giving is it that you look at your diary and your heart drops because it’s so busy. You don’t know when you’re going to have time to go to lunch. You don’t know when you’re going to even have time to go to the bathroom. Is it looking at your email inbox and just feeling completely overwhelmed and not knowing where to start? Is it that you are thinking about the kids when you’re at work? You’re thinking about work when you’re with the kids and you just don’t have the separation, you don’t have the ability to switch off, or are you feeling just really exhausted? And like, you know that tomorrow you’re just gonna wake up and feel exhausted. Again, you’re so tired that it’s that bone where he tiredness.

Speaker 2 (19:41):

So what are your signs and what can you do to req help yourself recognize the signs of over giving? What are your signs? I know for me, it’s when I start to get almost apathetic about something almost interfering resentful. And I know it’s also, when I feel like I’m taking on too many things, I feel resentful even towards my work or the other person. So those are my triggers and my warning signs or feeling at the end of the day, feeling tired. Like I’ve done a lot, but not tired in that fulfilled way. So what are your signs are starting to recognize them? Point number two is to recognize and know your needs. So again, as women, where if you go back to the episode, it was episode three or four, all about self-care. We are not great at saying what we need. We’re not great at recognizing what we need when we need it.

Speaker 2 (20:35):

And it’s really, really important for you to start to put your own needs first, to move yourself up the priority list, to make what you need an absolute in your diary, and honor it like you as a meeting with a boss. So what I get my clients to do, which is a really simple way. It’s almost when you’re thinking about your needs, think about it in a hierarchy. So the Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, it’s writing your own. So what are your very foundational things? So my very foundational things so that I can perform and I can show up as a leader or making sure I eat properly, making sure that I get some fresh air each day, making sure that I’ve slept well, making sure that I’m organized and I know what I’m doing so I can get on and do the thing rather than be prepping all day, too, for the thing.

Speaker 2 (21:21):

So that’s, that’s part of my hierarchy of needs. And the foundational ones are what I call feel good foundations. This is something else I get all my clients do. When we first start working together is to recognize their feel good foundations. What are the big rocks in their week? What are the, what the foundations that are going to help them to consistently perform and have that impact and influence as a leader. So is it getting up and going for a walk every morning? Is it getting up and doing some clearing your head journal? Is it having very set boundaries of when you start and you finish work? Is it having good food already there and available? So really, really thinking about what are your feel-good foundations. And as part of that, there was, um, a model that I found that I’ve really, really liked, which was all about just identifying whether you’re a giver, a taker or a matcher.

Speaker 2 (22:11):

So this was, um, this is a model that was put together by Adam Grant. Who’s the author of give and take, and there’s three different types of rescue reciprocity types. So there’s givers takers, and as matches. So take as a very self-focused and put their own needs and interests ahead of other people and try to gain as much as possible from interactions, but contribute very little back. So there is that mismatch. They’re taking more than they’re giving matches, like to keep the equal balance of giving and take in. So mindset is, if you take from me, I’ll take from you. You give to me, I’ll give to you. So it’s almost that matching of giving and taking. And then there’s givers give is a very focused on others tend to provide support to others with no, no one threw anything back, no strings attached, but really what they’re asking themselves, what can I contribute?

Speaker 2 (23:04):

How can I add value? So if you have a think about which type you are and how that relates back to what you need, and at what point are you overgiving. So if you’re a giver, at what point are you giving so much that it just doesn’t feel, it doesn’t feel good for you anymore. And actually give us tend to be the worst performers at work. Um, and there are real disadvantage across a whole range of areas and of work because they sacrifice their time and energy to help others succeed. So they’re sacrificing their own success for others to get ahead. So it’s really givers who are the ones that perform best at. So have a think about that or put a link in the show notes. So you can do a little test to see which of those you are, but just to be mindful of, if you’re a taker, a matcher or giver within that, what are your, how does that relate to your needs?

Speaker 2 (24:00):

So point number three is looking at what you’re doing and delegate ditch or do. So if you’re in the middle of doing something and you’re just sat there, you’re feeling apathetic, just don’t don’t care. Uh, can’t be asked to do this. I don’t want to do it. Is this somewhere that that can be delegated to is a way of just ditching it completely, or is it just a matter of book in and get on with it and do it in a way that feels more positive? So what you can do, what I sometimes get my clients do is over a couple of days and list down everything that they do and to think about what they can delegate, what they can ditch completely on what they need to do. And if it’s something they need to do booking some time, but also set the environments that feels like a really positive thing that they’re doing.

Speaker 2 (24:46):

So they’re excited about it. So that could be in the background, have some music that’s just more energizing or after they’ve done that thing, that there’s a way of rewarding themselves. So get really, really super strict on delegate ditch and do, and think about where you’re saying yes for the sake of it, rather than because you want to, what’s your energy and reaction doing certain things. So when you’ve looked at the things that you’re doing over a couple of days, what’s your energy and how do you feel about them and then run them through this model of delegate ditch and do, um, where can you delegate and get some help where he did she completely and where does it need to be you, but how can you make that feel more positive and more energized? And Glen and Doyle talks about this in an episode of her podcasts.

Speaker 2 (25:30):

Um, we can do hard things where she talks about all the tickers that we have as women, what she mean by tickers. So things that are constantly running through our minds. So it could be a ticker about your children and what they need for school. It could be a ticker about the dog is not feeling well, needs to go to that. It could be a ticker about a big project at work. It could be a ticker about a awkward conversation, a difficult conversation you need to have. So think about the tickers that are constantly going through your mind and think about with delegating as well. It’s not just at work, but it’s a way of delegating. A ticker to your partner at home is a way of delegating a ticket to your children. If that older is a way of delegating a ticket to a parent, to a cleaner, to a housekeeper, but just think about what are the things that are on your mind and a really good way to understand this is also not only to think about the things you over a couple of days, but you could also list out and just empty your head of everything and lists out everything that’s on your mind.

Speaker 2 (26:31):

So I call it a brain dump or mental woman. So just mental vomiting, everything that’s on your mind and what are the tickets constantly going? So point number four is B B. I’m really pleased to diary. Bids are a diary, please. So really, really own your diary and protect it because your life is only as good as your diary is. So your life and your diary reflect each other. Your life is only as happy as exciting as you, when you look at your diary, how it makes you feel. So become a police person, please have your diary. So set your boundaries, set a start time and finish time for work. Be super clear on it. So for example, new client I’ve just started working with, she is going to take Wednesdays to do our work. Also self-development work, and to do the bigger projects, the strategy stuff that she doesn’t get time to in the day to day.

Speaker 2 (27:27):

So for Wednesdays, for now on, she’s just going to clear any meeting she has with anyone at any level, she’s just going to turn them down and she is not available, and she’s going to be super, super strict with that, so that it’s giving her that time back. But also that’s reclaiming her time and her energy and breaking that cycle of over-giving point. Number five final point is really to just make sure that you have absolute clarity on your role and your objectives as a leader. So what are you responsible for? What’s your remit? What’s your area? What are your objectives, your work into right now and is everything that you’re doing relating to that? Or are you working on something for your visibility or you’re working on something to be seen more and to be heard more by the people that you think are going to help you to get us to the next step, but having real clarity on your role in your objectives.

Speaker 2 (28:17):

So it’s almost going back and revisiting your jobs back in anything outside of that questioning why it’s with you questioning, is it for you? Do you want to do this? And can you say no and reclaim that time and energy. So for example, a client that I worked with earlier in the year when we first started working together, she was looking after two additional teams for people that were away from the business for certain family reasons. So she had gone from a team of eight direct reports. She suddenly had 25. And actually at the time we worked together, she ended up with two more teams that she was caretaking whilst people were doing things that they needed to with their family and having some time out. So she ended up with rather than a team of eight, she actually ended up with team of 28 direct reports.

Speaker 2 (29:06):

So we worked on just being super clear on her job role and her objectives. And also we reshaped her diary so that she wasn’t having a one-to-one with every single one of those 28 people, but setting in place some hierarchies within each of the teams. So she could claim some time back. So that’s point number five. And the final point just to mention is there’s also the deeper work behind the over-giving there’s the, the drivers for not over-giving and to really break the cycle at the very root it’s about the deep work with a coach like myself. So that is looking at why you don’t feel enough. What is the root, what are the beliefs and the reasons behind that? What is your imposter telling you? What is the, what is the response? What is the beliefs that you’ve inherited? So where does that trauma come from?

Speaker 2 (29:53):

And just really looking at what the beliefs and the stories that relate to it, that you’re still living by. So if that’s deeper work that you want to do, you know where I am and you can contact me or my contact details are in the show notes. So that’s it for today. So over-giving really at its heart is just you really just not owning your value and your worth you’re over-giving to such an extent that it makes you less, you have less impact, you have less influence because you’re constantly there. You’re constantly giving so much to, it’s just assume that you’ll always be there. And as women we naturally want to please, we want to support other people. We’ve got that the neuroscience and mammalian part of the brain drives us very, very hard. So really it’s down to us to recognize that. And it’s down to us to know our signs of when we’re over-giving.

Speaker 2 (30:45):

So that’s it for today. If you’re feeling a bit overwhelmed at the moment, if you feel like there’s so much on your mind, a great place to start is with my overwhelmed on fire, my five, three step guide. So the details for that are in the show notes, if this has really resonated with you, and you would like some help to stop that over-giving and to really just start to stand in your own power and know that you’re enough, my contact details are in the show notes. You can contact me on LinkedIn or send me an email. Um, and just finally, next week we are focusing on, I’ve got an amazing interviewee, and we’re going to be talking to her all about how to keep your energy so that you can really keep your vision and not lose yourself in the day-to-day, but it’s that keep your creativity, keep that strategic brain and keep pushing forward towards your vision. So that’s upstate say, I’d love to know what you think, and I will speak to you again soon. Bye.