Nicola: [00:00:00] with female leads is on fire. I am your host. I’m Nicola Buckley. I’m the coach work with women at the various organizations. Helping them to redefine that fire, that passion, that purpose excitement, so they can have more impact and more influence and drive more positive change in the corporate world. So today, um, I’m here for a quick introduction because I’ve got a guest, one of our first international guests.

I’ve got the brilliant Margaret when it goes. Uh, Margaret’s going to be sharing her secrets around how to live your fullest potential. And Margaret is someone who’s been in the corporate world, knows the challenges, understands the lived experience of women at the very top and she’s been there and she has that, that current understanding.

So what she’s done over the last year, she’s interviewed women at the [00:01:00] very top of organizations at the top of their fields in a different area. Across a range of professions to really understand what do these leaders share? What do they have in common? What’s made them so successful. What’s helped them fulfill all that potential that they have.

And what came out was that there was some really consistent behaviors that have really feel success for these people, but also allow them to follow those passions, follow their purpose. I’m really just focusing on it and give it the time. And the energy to really fulfill that potential. So mark is a complete bundle of energy.

She views hours on a warrant for the knowledge is absolutely contagious. And she’s just when she approached me to be on the podcast. So, so delighted to have, um, someone from across, uh, across this pond and her impact. Brilliant. I just came away feeling pain away from this interview, feeling really excited, really enlightened, and [00:02:00] also knowing, you know, there’s another, there’s another woman at the top has been at the top of this hour in the world doing really incredible things.

So yeah, I really hope you enjoyed today’s podcast. Margaret’s energy. It’s really infectious. So I’m sure you’re going to get loads from today. And the five points that she covers are going to be really, really impactful. So I’d love to know what you think and which ones you agree with, or if there’s any different ones you feel should be covered in your experience.

Just drop me a message. All my contact details in the show notes. Enjoy the show. Bye. Hello everyone. Welcome to the female leaders on fire. And I am your host, I’m Nicola Buckley. And I work with women at the very top of organizations and I help them to find their fire, so help them to rediscover that purpose, that passion, that excitement, um, so that they can have more impact.

And the result more income and also become a real force for good driving, positive change in that organizations. [00:03:00] And today I’m really, really excited because I have a brilliant guest with me from over the Walters today. So our first international guests, I think, and it’s Margaret. And he’s here with me today and she’s gonna introduce herself in a minute, but I’ll introduce her first.

So Margaret founded rising tide after 10 year career in sales, leadership and rising tide was created for two purposes. So firstly, to create exposure and build a community for the people who believe we need to change the business world, which I am cheering her on already with that. And for our career, the unchanging.

Being the only female in the room. So yeah, absolutely. I guess a hundred percent. And the highest she claim, she hoped to wield her influence to impact change, not just within our organization, but within a company, within a profession. And she became increasingly aware that the only way to truly make a change was to make this a mission and her career.

So Margaret is now on a mission to create balance of masculine and feminine power Vinod companies to create collaborative, successful, and [00:04:00] sustainable environments built for human beings rather than ideal employees. And within this women must really be elevated in power to show up for themselves and live in their fullest potential.

So I am nodding away. So all of this already, Margaret say welcome to the podcast today. It’s really, really great. It’s a happy hair. Thank

Margaret: you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be on and I have loved listening to your podcast and all of your guests. And this is such an honor. Oh, thank you.

Nicola: Thank you.

And I said you are the first international guests, which is brilliant. So even more exciting,

Margaret: exciting.

Nicola: I’d say, you’re going to ask you to introduce yourself and a little bit today. We’re going to be talking all about how to live to your fullest potential and what are the steps that you can take so that you are living to your.

The potential, uh, Margaret got some brilliant, brilliant insights cause she’s interviewed because across, through the last year, just a range of professionals at all different levels in all industries and really identifying what has [00:05:00] helped them to live to their fullest potential. So Margaret, you just want to start by today just by introducing yourself and how you came to be doing this work that is already pulling on my heartstrings.

So I do a compensation yet.

Margaret: Of course I, you know, I, like you said, I, my background is in software and I kind of fell backwards into a sales career about 12 years ago. And it was one of those things that I loved it until I did it. And, you know, I think when you ask about how did I get into the work that I’m doing today?

You know, it’s one of those where I fought it for a long time. Desperately wanted to stay the corporate path and the corporate path kept chewing me up and spinning me back out saying that’s not where you belong. Find another way to, to, to influence, change, and impact and make a difference. And so this has been.

You know, I, I think part of why I was so drawn to your, your podcast and your, your mission [00:06:00] is that this whole idea of really stepping into your power, finding your fire. It’s so interesting. Cause when you do it, you feel it. And you know, that that’s where you’re meant to be. And I think I spent a lot of my career feeling.

Like I was adding value, feeling good at what I was doing, but not feeling like I belonged and not feeling that spark, that this is where I am meant to be. This is what I meant to be doing. And so with rising tide, that’s really where things have come full circle of aligning. Where my passion lies as a, as a leader where my strength lies and the skills that I’ve acquired, but then also now getting to do things in a way that aligned better with where I’m at my best.

Nicola: Oh, I love it. I love it. And I, I hugely hugely resonate with that sense of not really belonging and not really fitting in. And I know. I felt like through my corporate career. So I had a 16 year corporate marketing career. And [00:07:00] I think for a lot of that, I spent so much of my energy and my time trying to fit in.

And a lot of that was really what I call kind of losing, losing the hard edges of who I am. And for example, I’m, I’m a huge emotion person. I’m an empath. So I’ve just absorbed feelings, just like this lightning rod of emotions for the world around me and the people around me. And my feedback at work was that you’re over emotional or you’re over-reactive or when you’re passionate, it’s actually quite aggressive.

So that sense of not belonging and that sense of, if you want to fit in here, you need to change who you are. There’s something wrong with you. There’s something that doesn’t sit, right. It’s almost that square peg in a round hole. And it’s. It’s sad, but it’s also heartening to know that I’m not the only one to feel like that.

And I think many, many women at the very top do feel like that.

Margaret: Oh yeah. I mean, and it makes sense, doesn’t it? I mean, if you think about what if one of the, one of the books that was like a [00:08:00] huge kind of aha moment for me was Cassandra speaks by Elizabeth lesser. And, you know, I think when I read that book, which she helps, she really helped me understand is that.

This world that we live in today was not built by women. And so it would make sense. And especially the corporate world, it makes sense that we we’ve oftentimes felt in conflict or that we have to adapt ourselves. And I think the tragedy, and I know for me personally, the trap I fell into is I just assumed there was something wrong with me that I was somehow broken because I couldn’t.

I didn’t operate the way I was quote unquote supposed to. And so that book was really a big catalyst of helping me realize like part of why we’re going to behave the way they do is just imprinted social conditioning that we don’t willingly choose it’s passed down. And then, you know, this whole concept of like, what does power look like?

And [00:09:00] so. Um, we’ve seen a male version of power, um, and we’re seeing more feminine versions of power, but they’re, they’re distinctly different. And so, so that’s, that was a really helpful thing too, because it just, it kind of opened my eyes of, like, it wasn’t something that I was doing wrong. It was just different.

At different, did it mean bad?

Nicola: Absolutely. Absolutely. No. I just saw something on LinkedIn this morning. Someone just posted about, they just been too, it sounds really innocuous and kind of, how does it relate, but it just went to a toy store with their daughter. And just took a photo of all the toys that were, you know, shamed for girls and they’re all pink and they’re all bothered aisles and they’re all about hair and clothes.

And, and then he looked at the ones that were for boys and they were all about action and gardens. And you know, even at that age, we wonder why there’s such indoctrination into who you’re meant to be as a woman who you meant to be as a man. And then add to that. We’ve got this [00:10:00] evolving gender spectrum.

So it’s. It’s no wonder that we have this imprint. And like you said, I’m, I don’t, I don’t believe in it it’s a men versus women. I don’t think that’s how we’re going to get to where we need to be. It’s just like, this is where we are. How do we move forward together? And how do we share amazing skills? And qualities that can be more inherent in men.

And how do we share amazing skills and qualities that tends to be more inherent in women and actually leaders that are most impactful and the leaders that are the most revolutionary in really changing and evolving things. They are ones that are going to dip in and out of both sets of that, those masculine and feminine skills at different times.

Margaret: Oh a hundred percent. It is all about balance. And I think that’s what I know with the rising tide. It’s so important to connect people too, because I believe that the what’s really needs to be solved for is the corporate, the corporate world. And that’s, what’s broken. And so the idea here is that the workplace doesn’t work for anyone.

It [00:11:00] doesn’t matter how you identify it, doesn’t work for you. And so, because there’s a. There’s a noticeable absence of feminine energy at the top. That’s why rising tide focuses on those who identify as female, because they’re the ones that we need to get in partnership with the existing masculine energy.

But it is the balance is the key because we we’ve seen the masculine energy, you know, kind of a surplus of that. And so if we were to swing the pendulum, the other way would we’d have the same problems. They’d just be different. So it is balance is the key. That’s the goal.

Nicola: Yeah, I love that. I love that.

Absolutely. So when we were talking about you coming on the podcast, what you wanted to focus on was really five things that leaders do to live to their fullest potential. I’m super excited because I think this is quite a bit different to anything that we’ve covered before and how you can start to bring those, integrate those habits into your daily life.

So with those five things, where, where would we start? So [00:12:00] this is the leaders who wants to live to the absolute fullest potential. And I expect there’s a lot of women listening at. I worked with women. I don’t know if you find the same that know that there’s something more for them. There’s something bigger.

There’s something different. It’s just this innate sense that I, I don’t think it’s all, this is all the risk for them. So this, I love this idea that you can help them unlocked and live to their fullest potential. Yeah.

Margaret: Oh my gosh. Well, and so this is there’s five things and I will I’ll share the five things that I think you can kind of decide what you want to unpack.

And we can go into more depth. And this was, this was formed from the women that I’ve interviewed on the podcast. So I’ve done almost 50 interviews at this point. And what was fascinating to watch unfold is that as I would do these interviews, These were all ages, all backgrounds, industries that they worked in, roles that they held.[00:13:00]

Different ethnicities. And yet these resounding themes kept surfacing. They were all consistently doing these behaviors that were enabling them to be able to be successful. And so the five things that have what I boiled it down, they broke down into five things, which is the first one was they had a strong career crew.

So essentially a community around them, a very intentional group around them. And that included, um, mentors sponsors. And typically a coach, every single person I’ve ever interviewed has at some point, worked with a coach really

Nicola: heartening to hear yes. Be I’m sure. So cheering my little heart.

Margaret: Yes. Yes. And I’m a huge advocate for coaches, so we could definitely harp on that.

So strong career crews, number one, the second thing is they are proficient networkers. And what I mean by that is it’s so funny because when I. But particularly women, if they identify as a networker, they usually kind of bristle. There’s a little [00:14:00] bit of stigma, still attached with networking. And really all networking is, is relationships and the best, the women on the podcast where I found that they were doing is that it wasn’t just connecting, but they leveraged their network.

So they would actually make an ask of their network when they needed something or they needed help. And so took advantage of the fact that they had. Built these beautiful relationships invested in others. And then when they needed to, they would, it would have. It’s something about there. So that’s, you know, as proficient networkers, they not only established relationships, but they also leverage those relationships.

Yes.

Nicola: Yeah. So what’s the thing that stigma is that with networking, do you think it’s still seen, as I can add on to a job or do you get still seen as it’s a nice thing to do, but not a need to have? Or what do you think the stigma is that with the network? So I would, I would call this purposeful relationships and as a nurse at speeds, intentional about your.

Um, you know, [00:15:00] stakeholder management or your networking or those, you know, those terms used a lot in corporate world, but just be purposeful, just set some, be intentional with your time and how you use it and who you’re speaking to.

Margaret: Yes. You know, I, it’s so interesting because it, to me it’s so funny. Cause my background is sales and it reminded me a lot of how people talk.

Which is they, they typically have a very outdated perception when they like with certain words. And so to me, networking, a lot of times when people visualize it’s like think back to the days of business cards and those happy hours where everyone has drink tickets and they’re walking around and they’re w you know, trying to meet as many people as superficially as possible.

And, um, and I think when, you know, especially what I find is. People want genuine connection. They don’t want those superficial, um, they don’t want those superficial connections and that can be very exhausting. So I think a lot of times what can happen is that’s the view of it. And what I see is that women in particular are [00:16:00] wanting to have a more genuine connection.

They’re wanting to go a little bit deeper, have it be more of a relationship. So to me it seems more just a. Uh, either we start calling it something else or we like, we redefine what networking means so that we kind of get, get rid of that outdated, archaic view of what sort of

Nicola: shorter pants in a business cards and no more.

And I think given the last two years, everyone, everyone across the globe has had, and you know, everyone in their own way, I think. Deeper connection. Isn’t it? Because for a long time, connections shifted to being so different and they are very much online and they weren’t face-to-face and you wouldn’t feel someone’s energy in the room is very different.

So I think that that deeper connection and yeah, Karen connection, Bernie brown talks about lots and she, and her definition of daring leadership is that actual deep care and connection for the people around you. It’s not just the, uh, you know, passing. How are you? It’s like, no, really? How are you?

Margaret: Yes. [00:17:00] Yes.

And this is something I see again, I’ve had, I have a, one of my actually favorite leaders. Um, he, he did this and I, so it’s not just women who do it. Women I have noticed are, tend to be more, I think naturally this seems to be where they gravitate and what’s amazing. Again, the networking piece, the like people, women, female leaders, not always, but in general, they, the ones that I’ve interviewed, they pour so much into the people who work for them and the relationships, especially with the organizations that they’re at.

And so, but then they’ve also, you know, they’ve also mined those relationships when they needed them. And that’s typically when I look at. Uh, as we look back on their career, when you start to see those moments of opportunity and doors opening, it’s because of relationships that they, they nurtured or the way that they made people feel or treated them years prior that left, uh, left [00:18:00] an impression.

Yeah,

Nicola: absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that one. Yeah.

Margaret: Third one is, so this one’s deep, this one, this one has multiple parts to it, which is it’s, it’s really important to understand what matters. And so not this one, this one. Yeah. And this one’s, this, one’s probably the most intensive, hard work that you’ve got to do because it all really like you can’t.

I would say you can’t truly, you know, find your fire if you don’t know what matters to you and what matters is very individual. And we have to go with it and we can’t be seeking that answer from the external world. And so for these women in particular, it was, um, they had a set of core values. That guided them.

And when they were faced with some of the most daunting, challenging moments in their life, that is what they turn to as opposed to what the world said you should want on. That

Nicola: was the difference [00:19:00] between externally, externally led isn’t it versus internally led and values is one of the things I absolutely love teaching and coaching.

Cause it’s, I call it the beating heart of who you are. It’s almost like, imagine all the change we’ve been through in the last two years, there’s been so much constant change that it’s, it’s really difficult to get used to cause always shifting, especially for women at the top. So if I work, for example, with quite a lot of HR directors, That they were picking on teams on furlough.

They were having to cut salaries. They might be taking a salary, cut themselves. They were suddenly helping an entire organization work from home. And then over the last few months, trying to bring people back into work, but being conscious that there’s a different world now. And Nick, you know, some of the things that those women have gotten through, it’s back to.

What am I values for less because the brain loves that consistency and response and the only consistency and response, consistency of response, really. And so much changes like from within it’s. Like, I know [00:20:00] that I know what’s important to me and I know how I’m going to show up, even for all this change, even for all this hardship.

So I love, I love this.

Margaret: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, uh, it’s been, it’s been really fascinating to watch. I have one of the, one of the women I’ll give you a quick example. Her name is Dr. Jen Wren house and she was a, um, she works for, she was an executive in HR and her team had been consolidated and, uh, she was laid off and she was starting to look for other jobs and she was trying to figure out what she wanted and her family.

One of the things that they knew was really important. It’s like there was a high premium for them around time with their family. And when she looked at their family calendar from the last year, her and her husband both traveled a tremendous amount for work. They were only home together for seven years.

Over the course of an entire year. Wow. And so she was in the process of interviewing for other executive roles and she was up for and got [00:21:00] the offer for a job. That would be the way she described it. I loved it was picture like you now have access to the corporate jet. Like it was that level of all the accolades that come with it, right.

The title, the pay, the, the status, but it would mean 80% track. And so when she looked at what was important to her and her life, it didn’t align with this job. And the job from the outside the world was saying, this is what you’ve been working for. This is what matters. This is what success looks like, but because she knew what was most important to her, and she stayed grounded in that she actually turned the job down.

Yeah. And so it’s a beautiful story of like, that has to be one of the greatest test of like, Hey, do you know who, like what matters most to you? Cause it would have been so easy to get swept up into. You know, this whole, other, this whole other journey because of what the world says is really [00:22:00] valuable. So knowing your values is really big.

And then kind of what I touched on there is also knowing what dimension of your life you want to prioritize. And this changes. So this is something that’s not, it’s not a constant, you know, but for her. Relationships with her family where the priority at this stage of her life, she had teenage daughters and wanted to be more present with them and she wanted to be, spend more time with her husband.

And so that was the driving force for her. Those are, when we, when I say, know what matters, those are kind of the two big things of, do you understand your values? And then do you understand the dimension of your life that you are into? You’re wanting to prioritize and put your time in? Yeah. I

Nicola: love that. I love both those values.

I could talk about all day long. They, they change lives. I think, you know, the goosebumpy moment when a client’s got the realization, oh my God, this is my value. These are my values. This is. This is who I am beyond, you know, [00:23:00] MD, CEO, whatever your job title is beyond, you know, potentially mum partner, all those different roles that you fulfill.

This is, this is me. This is me at my beating heart of who I am. I love how important they become almost like a. Uh, way then a filtering decisions. Don’t they like, like your client did, is that actually, you know, what as amazing as this opportunity is it just doesn’t sit with my values and I love the other party talks about which probably my language would be.

What is the chapter of your life you’re in at the moment? Is that, where does that therefore. How does it fit with that chapter then how you spend your time, your energy, your expertise, and your love, because actually, like you said, she was quite focused on her. Teenage children also have family time and time with her partner.

That’s okay. That’s a conscious choice. That’s a chapter that you’re in, right.

Margaret: Right, right. I love chapter because it just, it, nothing is permanent, you know? And I, I love that. I love when [00:24:00] we think about our life in chapters, that just automatically helps us know, like it’s a, it’s a state, it’s not a permanent state.

So, and I, you know, with, with values, what I, what I’ve come to really love about them is, and I, Adam Grant talked about this in his book, think again, and he talks about how. Um, the book’s really about, you know, acquiring new information and challenging beliefs that you hold as you learn new information and updating them, but what stays constant are values.

So a lot of times beliefs are what people try to keep constant because that’s their point of stability and really beliefs should be updated. It’s your values. That can be your, your rock, your, your source. Constant in your life. Um, and so I thought that was, I’ve really latched onto that because it made so much sense to me.

And I think it allowed for that flexibility of letting yourself evolve as you grow and learn new information, updating the beliefs that you [00:25:00] hold, but having, having values that keep you rooted.

Nicola: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And. I think swell values almost like this brilliant, flexible framework aren’t there that grow and evolve as you do.

So for example, if I think of one of my values, which is freedom, it’s how much that one’s changed. I freedom my, my fiance and I love to travel. So when we first met, we used to travel quite often together, obviously look down and everything we’ve been free, kind of changed that. So then freedom became actually, you know, to have that women in the UK.

And assert the life plan that we had at that time or the chapter we ran, we’ll buy a camper van and we bought this beautiful camp farm, and we absolutely loved her name Bertha, but actually now we’re in another chapter of our life where we’ve moved back and we live near the coast. And part of having the camper van was to go to the coast and have weekends and days away.

And now that we live two minutes from the beach, it’s like, well, actually she does. That definition of freedom doesn’t really fit with her anymore. I’m so glad that we had that. And [00:26:00] actually freedom now is let’s be brave. And let’s book something like a small holiday just to get us back into, how do we feel about traveling?

How do we feel about, you know, making sure we’ve got the paperwork, right. And we’re, we have everything that we need to kind of get through all the different processes that you need to now. So.

Margaret: Oh, I love, I love how you just brought that to life. That was that’s amazing.

Nicola: Yeah. Um, so what’s number four. I’m excited by looking at number four, but I’m going to let you in, because I hear this a lot and I think I, if I could change anything for women at the top, this would be one of the big things that I’d really want them to just open themselves up to.

So yeah, just share

Margaret: it with us. Same. Yeah. Number four is listening to their intuition. Gosh, man. And I it’s so interesting because I really I’ve come to believe this more and more. Uh, w again, women in particular are very intuitive and it’s one of those things [00:27:00] where we are so good at rationalizing in a way, anyone who doesn’t consider themselves to be intuitive, I would bet that you’ve just got an incredibly effective at burying it.

It’s not that it’s not there. You’ve just gotten really good at silencing that voice. That’s trying to talk to you. Yeah, but this was definitely a big one of really. Giving life to it. And what, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on this because what I’ve seen and what they would often describe when we would talk about this on the podcast, is that one of the beauties of intuition is that the more life you give it, the more you lean into it.

Yeah. Especially when it’s telling you to do something, you know, like you’re, you’re kind of feeling that, uh, that need to do something that maybe goes against logic and it works like success begets success. It’s like you start to trust it more and more as you use it more. So intuition is one of those things.

Like you almost have to take a little bit of a leap of faith [00:28:00] initially with your intuition, but as you might be a

Nicola: little bit like what really.

Margaret: Yeah. So that’s, that’s definitely one thing I’ve seen is like, the more you tap into it, it kind of become, if it’s like this virtuous cycle of like, it fuels you cause you see the power of it and then it makes it easier.

The next time it speaks to you to listen. Yeah,

Nicola: I’ve got goosebumps. I love, love, love this subject. I think I need to do a separate podcast on intuition just on its own. But what I, the language I always use is the, the women that, that I work with have become very heavily. So very much logic reasoning thinking through, I might know that’s part of why they’re brilliant at what they do.

So I know for me, I’ve got this whole part of me. I’m a planning geek. I love structure. I love process, but then I’ve got this whole other part of me that is very hard. Yeah, that’s very intuitive. That’s very what feels right for me, what feels heavy? What feels heavy in my body versus what feels light and exciting.[00:29:00]

And actually what I see a lot of clients do, a lot of women do is that because that the organizations, they work in tend to be masculine led because we look at the stats of getting in a gang. It’s not a criticism, but it’s just the fact of where we are. Corporate world tends to be more male than. So that thinking leads to, I can, I can prove and demonstrate food logic through reasoning.

So I would have, for example, to get funding for a particular law, I would have to demonstrate a business case. So that’s all logic and reasoning, but actually where it got really exciting for me was when my. I kind of got behind it with my heart and like got the goosebumps of like, oh my God, what difference is this going to make to our, to our customers and our clients?

And for many of my, when of the women that I work with, it’s almost the intuition. Been kind of dialed down because they’ve had to dial so much up on the logic and the head led part of them. So part of what we do is get back to the very basics of just listening to their [00:30:00] heart and their body. And that can be as simple as everyday ask themselves, how do I feel today?

What’s the, what’s the story that’s playing out for me today and what do I need today? So evolve and just, you know, the logic. If I’m gonna look at my diary and, you know, look at my, to do list, it’s like, actually, what about your to be less? What about what you actually need? Because if you do you need rest, do you need to kind of find some time in there just to rest or walk or find some time for you?

So, yeah, the intuition piece is huge. I’ll share a quick story if that’s okay with, um, quiet that I had from, I worked with for 18 months, absolutely loved working with burn in the time we worked together, she was in Bo Vita, joined the exact board. So she was already at very senior level. We kind of knew it was always coming, but it had never.

You know, it never come to fully to fruition. So she was, she’s just brilliant at demonstrating through numbers, through logic, through reasoning, but over time, the CEO trusted her more and more and more. And what actually, [00:31:00] what it switched to is that she would share more over intuition. She would share more of like what she called almost like her spidey sense, like a hundred.

And the more that she shared this more, the CEO just realized actually a lot of the time she was, she had either a really relevant point of view, a different way of looking at something. Or she was just bright because you have this experience, you have this knowledge, you have this understanding and he actually.

I’m really proud moment was when the CEO said to her, it’s not, I think we should listen to, I want to hear my client’s point of view on this, because actually it’s not often that she’s wrong with her instinct or intuition. And there was that lovely switch and it took time to build almost not the permission, but the acceptance of actually there’s something here.

That’s beyond numbers. It’s beyond logic. That’s beyond reasoning this beyond just, you know, the hat had led approach of what, what does it look like? What’s the logic and reasoning here. And actually from my heart, this is what makes sense.

Margaret: Right. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that so much. And I’m just sitting here nodding my head.[00:32:00]

I I’ve. And I’ve had that experience and it’s, I mean, it is terrifying. I mean, like it is because there have been many, there have been many times in a, in a corporate setting where I’ve just sat silent, even though I’ve had a thought and I’ve really, I’ve really, there’s been times where yeah. Forced myself to speak up and it has, it is, it could be, that’s such a powerful moment when you speak.

And in this case, what a beautiful story of like being listened to and happy as yes. Oh. So much. Well, all right, so I’ll give you the,

Nicola: so what’s the fifth one I’m loving. And

Margaret: yet I can’t wait to listen to him doing that podcast comes out, that you do about intuition. I will be. I definitely hope you do that.

That would be wonderful.

Nicola: I’m committed to definitely, definitely. So thank you for prompting me. So,

Margaret: yeah. Yeah. So the fifth one, so this one’s really interesting and I’m still playing around how to talk about [00:33:00] it, but it’s this idea of these open-ended career. Yeah. And so what I love about this is, you know, I’ll use myself as an example.

When I first started working with a coach, I remember she asked me, she said, okay, Margaret, what, what’s the, what’s the goal? What are you shooting for? And, uh, I said, CRO, I want to be the chief revenue officer. And she just looked right back at me. And I mean, we have known each other for about 10 minutes at this point.

She goes, why not see you. And Nicole, it shook me because it was like that moment of realizing that I put myself in this box. I’d also been very confined in what I said was possible. Like why was it defined by a label? And so what I love about the women on the podcast is that. You know, they typically are directional in nature, or they have an idea of where they want to go or what they want to do, but it tends to be more about what they’re doing as [00:34:00] opposed to a specific job they’ll hold.

And they, because they it’s more open. They have, it’s more directional in nature. They allow themselves to update what they choose to. To go after, as they, again, as they learn new information, as they get deeper and understanding who they are and what they value. And so it allows them to be fluid and flexible to take on opportunities that perhaps if they were like me where they’re like, I’m going to be a CRO that they might’ve turned down because they’re like, but I’m, I work in sales.

I don’t do anything over in marketing. I don’t do anything over in customer success. I was like, I’m the sales leader. So I, that’s one thing I’ve really admired and take into heart. They’re very fluid and they’re more directional in nature as opposed to having very specific black and white goals. Yeah.

Nicola: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, um, I tell you if you’ve heard of it in, um, in America it’s, um, the [00:35:00] squiggly Korea.

Margaret: Oh, I love that

Nicola: quickly. Chris, let me just remind myself. So it’s Helen TAPO and Sarah Ellis. I’m a huge fan. So it’s more about, yeah. That flexibility of over time. What feels right to me. And is it, is there actually a great sideway step into an area that I love or is there a great.

Step up into something that I’d never considered before, or is there a great opportunity? That’s not actually an opportunity, but it’s becoming an opportunity because someone wants to work with me and it’s almost, yeah. That brilliant way that you described almost have a direction of travel, but be open to the opportunities that, where it’s going to lead you and not being.

I think, give yourself almost like the freedom to dream big or the freedom to think in a different way or the freedom to not always be about pushing harder and hustling and doing more and demonstrating self, but also, you know, allow yourself to receive and be open to actually, I think you’d be great for this opportunity.

Margaret: Right? Right. I love it. I, one [00:36:00] of the, one of the women on the podcast, um, her name’s Jen Goldstone, she was saying. Uh, she was a T television producer with ABC. And unfortunately in her case, she realized she wanted to have a family, but in that career path, at that time, she had already seen women who, uh, had go bags at their desks that were getting dusty because they were not getting kind of the hot assignments.

They were getting a little bit more of the pedestrian ones and she knew if this was. For her, it was the excitement that she, she wanted. And so if she couldn’t do it doing those types of assignments, she didn’t want to be a television producer anymore. She actually reinvented herself, looking at the skills that she had and transitioned into the nonprofit world and became a nonprofit at one of the largest nonprofits in the us, um, as well as their COO.

And so she’s an incredible story of like, you know, she, she focused on skills as her path, [00:37:00] right. What was next for her and very, she very intentionally chose it. It was a very calculated move on her part, but such a great example of like, she’s she’s now on her third, I would say quote-unquote career. Or she started in news production.

Then she was a nonprofit executive. And now she’s a founder and CEO of a consulting firm and it does executive coaching. So, I mean, it’s just this incredible thing. Being open and listening to yourself. I love that screen squiggly. Yes. I

Nicola: love that. Yeah. Honestly, I just, I listen to podcasts so highly recommended and it just, um, yeah, just being open to it.

I, if I think about like my dad, my dad’s generation, so my dad worked for the same. My dad worked for the, as a lawyer and he worked for them for 39 years. He ended up leaving for stress and it wasn’t a very positive way to leave, but careers don’t happen in that same way anymore. You don’t tend to work.

He moved around a fair bit within that organization to different areas and it was done in some [00:38:00] areas to really help them to perform better. I don’t think it happens in that same way anymore. If I think of like millennials that are coming through now, there’s going to, they’re going to have four or five different careers.

I’m on my. Uh, so I had a corporate marketing career. Then I left and I ran a gym and a fitness business that was very successful. Then I had a general mindset kind of working with women business, and now it’s leadership coaching. So I’m probably on the fourth iteration of my career. And I think that’s going to happen more and more because I think people are just demanding and wanting more.

And I think it’s just be open to a knowing that you have. Th the skills that you can bring. So for example, if you’re a mum, it was really fascinating a few weeks ago to have someone on the podcast talking about moms returning to work and actually the skills that you’ve developed through that of multitasking or thinking on your feet and problem solving in the moment, or, yeah, just all those different skills.

It’s not just, you’re not just off work, having a baby, you’re developing a whole different [00:39:00] skill set, which is, can be

Margaret: incredibly powerful. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it’s, you know, I think what’s, what’s also so important to acknowledge is that you have to get started and yeah, what’s so interesting is when you get started, you acquire information about yourself, what you like and what you don’t like.

And, you know, I would imagine if you look at your career too, it’s like each one of those things kind of fed the next thing. But if you were to say like, okay, as you’re starting your career, that this, this would be your path, you probably never would have imagined. So I think that’s the beauty of it too.

It’s like, you know, each, each chapter you learn something about yourself and it’s, you know, again, if you’re open enough, but have a directional nature, you, you know, you kind of, you end up where you’re meant to be. But sometimes the best thing is just focusing on what is my best next. I

Nicola: love that.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I was, I was listening to podcasts. I was listening to Brittany Brown talking to Adam [00:40:00] Grant. Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. So many light light bulbs from that. But he was just saying about actually every time we do something that is a step towards where we want to be. We’ll say it’s a tick for the person that we want to become.

I’m just like, for example, He was talking about someone that wanted to get really fit and really strong. And that person wanted to be someone who committed to going to the gym X number times a week, but they were, they were going full times a week, but they were just going for five minutes. And that might people might be like, well, why five minutes?

It doesn’t seem worth it. But actually he, he was, he had already committed every time he did it. It was a tick to be in the person he wanted to become. And I love that. And I think, I think again, it’s women at the top, we can underestimate those smaller. Steps because we, where we can be what I call all enough thing.

Like we’re complete, oh, I’m all in on this. I’m going to give it my everything. And, oh my God. That’s just, for me, that’s just flashing warning lights of like [00:41:00] burnout and, you know, frustration and resentment, but actually small steps. Great momentum. Um, and then with the momentum, it just builds more and more and you just, you have this, it builds your self belief.

It builds your self trust. Cause it’s like, oh my God, these small steps are really working for me. I can see the, I can see the seeds, um, starting to shoot and, um, yeah, absolutely. I love that. Yeah.

Margaret: So great. Yeah, that’s a great, that’s a great episode. Atomic habits by James clear is such a good book. I’m a big fan of that one, for sure.

So

Nicola: just to, just to finish off just so I love your five steps and I love that we’ve gone through them as you’ve shared them, but what if, if, uh, someone in the audience is listening today and they don’t feel that they’re living to their fullest potential as a leader. Well, where could they start to make a change?

Oh my

Margaret: goodness. I, I really do believe if you’re going to start anywhere. It’s looking the, the work within, to me, that’s the biggest Fest, the [00:42:00] place you’ve got to go first, um, before you can go and do the things to tap your career crew and, and leverage your network. And, um, and so, you know, I think that’s doing the work of knowing your values with.

That’s a lot of work. I will just be really upfront. And I would say something that, you know, it’s, it’s, interative right. You, you know, this, you’ve done this work. You invest a lot of time with your clients on this. And, um, one thing I love, I mean, I feel like I’m dropping a lot of books here, but like, um, Dr.

Susan, David, she wrote emotional agility. One of the things I love is that, uh, she talks about negative emotions. Well, a lot of times there are stigmas with negative emotions, but really their data. And what their data points to is what matters most to us or our values. And so what I would say for anyone listening is like a really great jumping off point is as you’re going through the next week or two, I would just pay attention if you [00:43:00] experienced what you can, you know, a negative emotion.

So anger, jealousy, you know, frustration, you know, make note of it. What is happening? Uh, perhaps who are you with? And then, you know, asking yourself like, what’s really got me upset. What’s really behind that because if you strip away some of those layers there’s values underneath there. So I’d say that’s, that’s sometimes a love that, a helpful starting point.

And then, you know, the other thing too is just, I think taking inventory of. Your dimensions again. So the dimensions are, you’ve got there’s personal. So that would be like your wellbeing. There’s there’s there’s professional, financial, relational, and you know, you could break relational up into multiple categories of intimate relationships, family relationships, and friendships, and then community.

Yeah, I think that in spiritual, there we go there. Sex. Yeah. The idea here is like, you know, T like really kind of looking at, and you can do a quick exercise up of these dimensions. Like, [00:44:00] what is important to you? Like where do you want to be spending your time and then going through separately and saying, where am I spending my time?

And then look to see where perhaps is there the greatest misalignment. So where are you maybe spending a ton of time? That’s not important to you? Or where is. You know, really important, but you’re not spending any time there. So I’d say those are the two things. If you’re going to start, those would be where I’d start.

Nicola: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, I think with some of my clients, they’ve switched off almost allowing themselves to feel because they’re so busy in their day-to-day and it doesn’t fit into necessarily fit into, um, the corporate life. Um, and actually just that feelings, I think we’re taught about feelings from an early age that, that.

Good or bad and black and white. And actually it’s not like that feeling to just feedback. They’re just giving us a post to what’s important to us, or, and they’re going to be like a forest fire. So if something’s coming up again and again and again, and you keep reacting, it’s like that forest fire is going to keep [00:45:00] sparking up until you look at what’s going on until you look at what’s behind that.

So, you know, those constant feelings that we have were actually had that the signposts, that feedback to, you know, just to help us shape our life. But I think where we’re taught about feelings from early age and, you know, oh no, it’s, uh, you know, for me over emotional, for example, in the corporate world, But feedings are our guidance system.

So back into them to start with absolutely.

Margaret: Yeah. For, oh yeah. Cause it’s so easy to Gaslight ourselves. Like, I shouldn’t feel this way. What’s wrong with me? Why do I, you know, oh gosh. Yes. And as you were talking, I just saw, I was like visualizing myself because yeah. It’s that whole idea of like kind of shutting down those feelings and.

You know, again, sometimes you have to, or then you’ve got to look at, take a hard look in the mirror and be like, is this really where I like a good place for me to be? If I’m having to just suppress all of that to survive. I don’t know if it is, I would argue it’s not. [00:46:00]

Nicola: And just to finish off with, is there a final message for our audience today?

Margaret: Oh boy. Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing is that the having the current. To, to live in your fullest. And I say courage because. It is, I would say, in, in the work that I’ve been doing and the last two years, and even just personally, the hardest thing is that to look within and to ask yourself those hard questions, because sometimes it means facing reality is you don’t necessarily, you know, like it, I believe it can only lead to good things.

Yeah. But it is it’s sometimes in the moment can be very difficult because growth is. Growth can be painful because it’s, it’s moving you forward. And sometimes that means that you have to let some things go. And so growth comes with grief because it’s, you know, you’re, there’s things that are lost along the way, [00:47:00] but there’s also things that are gained.

And so I would say that’s the big thing is, you know, You’ll know, trust that you’ll know when it’s time to invest here. If you’re feeling that urgency, don’t put it off, have the courage to have the hard look inside and listen to yourself and trust. I believe cream rises to the top. I really genuinely believe that I’ve seen, and I’ve heard too many stories now where these amazing, amazing people they find if they stay true to who they are.

And they continue to focus on taking the next best step. They ultimately find where they are meant to be and thrive. And so I think trust that that is what is in store for you when you find yourself a little scared to do the hard work of looking with it. Oh,

Nicola: I love it. I love it. I normally ask for books, but I think we’ve covered quite a few today anyway, haven’t we?

So I think we’ve kind of covered that one today. Is there a leader that’s really inspired you for your.

Margaret: You know, [00:48:00] I’ve, I’ve heard you as this question and I really struggled, you know, and what I talk about somebody who nobody will know, but he’s somebody who means a great deal to me that I worked with.

Um, and his name’s Matthew Mahoney. And he was the general manager at, um, when I was working at mind body. And I think why he inspired me is I, when I was in his presence, You know, those people that you’re with that you just feel amplified when you’re in their presence. Yeah. Energize and like, and, and I, when I was with him, I felt like I could do anything.

And then he was a master at building cohesive teams. Yeah. And, you know, as a GM, he, he only had one department. Uh, he only had the engineers and product org reporting to him, marketing sales, customer services, none of that report in, and yet he was able to build this really tight team because of his [00:49:00] ability to influence.

And so. To me, he inspires me because I saw his genuine desire to understand a person, his ability to clearly communicate a vision. And then his ability to just bring out the best in people and allow the best version of them to show up in a work environment. I just, he has forever imprinted on me.

Nicola: Oh, I love that.

I love that. Absolutely. And it’s such a huge thing is that it’s to be in a room, like you said, with someone. Uh, yeah, it makes anything seem possible. Just so, so powerful. Yes. Yeah. I’m finding what does find your fire mean to you?

Margaret: Yeah. Oh, I love this. I think that what I wrote down and cause I, I, I I’ve talked so much about potential to me.

It’s like that, that’s what it feels like. It’s living. Living in your potential. I think finding that sweet spot of your superpowers, your skills, your experience, and your passion. Like to me, that is finding your fire. [00:50:00] It’s like, that’s that sweet spot. And like, you know, it, when you feel it, because you feel alive, every part of your being just feels alive, these

Nicola: bumps and whack my audience.

Find out more about the work that you do.

Margaret: Oh, my gosh. Thank you for asking that. So, um, a couple of ways I have a Instagram account. You can follow along. It’s at rising tide podcast. I’m dabbling in tech talk now, so you could pull up on Tik TOK. Two at rise is rising tide podcasts. And then, um, our website is, this is rising tide.com.

Putting out blogs and a lot more, uh, that’s going to get beefed up even more. So those are probably the three best ways. And then the rising tide podcast is on and anywhere you listen to podcasts, if you search for rising tide, feel

Nicola: brilliant and keep doing the work that you’re doing, it’s just, yeah. So needed.

And I love it. I love it. So thank you so much for your time today. Thank you everyone to [00:51:00] listening and we will see you on the next podcast. Thanks.

Margaret: Bye

Nicola: If what I took about really resonates with you and you love what I have to say, and you have moments and flashes of inspiration from the podcast. I would invite you to get in touch, to find out how I can help you. So individually, that can be through my coaching focus program for my VIP program, depending on how you like to learn and what will suit you, or I can help you in your organization to really help the women that you work with across the organization at all different levels.

And at that very senior level to really feel empowered and to know that they can reach the very, the most senior levels in that organization and to give them the. In who they are and the clarity, what they want to be able to get there. And we do that through workshops, do that through leadership programs, and we can do that.

Free [00:52:00] consulting work. If you are looking for help with any of that, drop me an email nycla@nicholasschoolco.com. The spelling is not the easiest. So all the details are in the show notes results I get for clients. Clients have been promoted twice in the six months we’ve worked together. They’d been invited to join the board.

They’ve gone from redundancy to being offered three dreams. They’ve gone from being pushed out of an organization to going into a bigger organization and a bigger role with a bigger pay rise and just a quote from a client that particular. I’ve gone from the pit of despair. When I started working with Nick to just being really happy and she is an incredibly empowered leader.

Now, if you’re not quite ready for that, you can download my overwhelm to on fire guide the details that are in the show notes, but that really helps you everyday to stay in your fire. So it helps you to clear your head. It helps you to come back to what’s important to you, and it helps you have that most impact and influence every single day.

It’s a little Quip sheet that you can just go through and tick. So go and download that. Or you can subscribe to my newsletter, [00:53:00] which comes out every Friday, which is a Roundup of the week. Really? So what’s going on in my world. What’s the blog for that week, a quick video, that’s going to help your particular subject.

And it’s all about helping female leaders to find their fire and also stats in and any research from the industry as well. And things that I’m reading the. Um, recommendations that we’re making. So go and subscribe to that. And finally, for the podcast, if you haven’t done so already, I would love you to go and leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode.

And you’re always going to have the one that release and doing that as well. Not only helps you, but it also means that we’re going to reach more women and we’re going to be able to start that revolution to helping female leaders to keep that. Find their fire and keep it. So keep that passion, that purpose side excitement.

So if you haven’t done that already, please go and do that. Thank you.