[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Women at the Top of Telecoms and Tech. I am your host. I’m Nicola Buckley, and I help telecoms and tech organizations to recruit, retain, and develop women at the top. So in those very senior leadership positions and also future. To help close the gender pay gap and develop a more inclusive culture.

Today’s episode, we’re gonna be talking about something that I think is incredibly important, and we’re gonna be talking all about, uh, role modeling and really the power of role modeling for women in leadership and also for future. And today’s episode is called Seeing is Believing. And we’re gonna be going through just really introducing this idea of a role model and what it [00:01:00] actually is.

Um, I’m gonna share some of my experience around role models and then I’m also gonna give you some of the benefits of role models. And then finally, I’m gonna also close within an invitation, um, for you to become a role model as well. Where are we in the world at the moment? We’re in a world where there are more men named John in co positions in Foote 100 companies than there are women in the top spots.

So with that context and with that environment, we need all the visible rams we can get to really help close that gender gap. Actually, if you do a Google image search of CO, that really reflects the state of where we are because it’s just assumed, It’s very much assumed that a CO is gonna be a man. It’s very much, um, men then recruit more men that are, that, that senior level that look like them, that they just have a, a conscious bias towards.

And that’s where we are. So role models are so, so [00:02:00] important. Really inspired that future generation, but also for women at the top and in that those very senior leadership board level roles that they are not alone. So there was some research done by Dr. Nina Ansy and she wrote in Anonymous is a Woman, which was a really compelling, uh, collection of stories.

About women throughout history whose names you likely never heard of, but just how extraordinary they were, and that was where the statement came from. It’s hard to be what we cannot see, and I’ll just repeat that again. It’s hard to be what we cannot see. So almost that sense of belonging, that sense of, I know that I can get to that same place, that having the people around you that inspire you, knowing that there’s a path that’s already being trodden to get to where you wanna go.

It’s all really captured in that line. It’s hard to be what we cannot see, and it makes it much more difficult if [00:03:00] you feel like you are the only one, the only person going in that direction, the only woman to be in that type of role, the only woman to be in that area at that very senior level. And for many of my clients, they talk a lot about being the only woman in the.

Or being one of very few. And for some women, there’s not only, are they only women in the room, but actually in their whole organization at that level or in a particular area at that level. So for example, women that are in telecoms and tech, but might also be in more of a engineering area or more of a technical area, almost what we call unicorns, because they’re very much the only ones.

So it just makes that journey to the. That much harder because it’s difficult. It’s hard to be what we cannot see. I’ll probably keep coming back to that statement again and again. And really this is why it’s so important to have those positive female role models. And actually some research show that, uh, 36% [00:04:00] of women in leadership site role models is providing the confidence.

To make decisions that our boys would’ve not taken. So to be braver, to be bolder, to push forward more and it be kind of becomes then a self-fulfilling prophecy that if you can’t be what you can see, you don’t aspire to be it. You don’t take the steps to get there. Because that road hasn’t been trodden before.

It’s very unknown. It’s very difficult. It’s more challenging. You have more wobbles. Just that lack of confidence come up more often and you can face more challenges. So today’s episode, what I would love you to think about is not only who you can have. And who can become a role model to you, but also becoming a role model yourself.

And I’ll talk about that a little bit more at the end. So let’s start today by focusing on what actually is a role model. So a role model is not a mentor. A mentor is someone that’s probably. Um, more in an ongoing relationship with you that’s gonna give you advice. It’s gonna be a [00:05:00] sounding board that’s gonna really help you and advocate for you.

So it’s more of an active relationship. It’s not a coach. So a coach will be someone like me that you set a goal with, that then creates a safe space for you to really move towards those goals and get clarity of things that are keeping you stuck, uh, which is incredibly, incredibly powerful. For all my clients.

So a role model is someone that you can look up to, that you can be inspired by, that you can be aspired to be like, but they’re not necessarily someone that you have a direct relationship with. And also worth mentioning that you can have role models that are very positive that you see and you want to be like, and you’re inspired by and inspired to be like, But you can also have role models that are negative.

And if I think back to my career in the corporate world, I certainly had role models around me that were negative and positive, and if I think about the best, the best and most inspirational leader [00:06:00] that I had was a woman. And then the most difficult, challenging, and. To be honest, really draining that just kind of really impacted on my confidence.

Both of those were women, and the one that was really inspiring was she was a great coach. She knew when to push you. She would always advocate for you. She would really, for her entire team, be talking about what we were delivering and the projects and the way that we were doing. So you had a clear direction, you had a lot of support.

You were pushed in a really positive way because she believed in that you could do more. And I absolutely loved working for her. And on the flip side of that, I also had a one of, um, a female leader who was very aggressive. Wouldn’t read any of your emails or updates. We’d then update her in a, a very big meeting with a lot of the board directors and she would then react to things in that moment that she didn’t like, that she didn’t agree with, that she [00:07:00] hadn’t signed off, that she hadn’t proved.

And every week there would be at least one person that would just be really told, torn down in front of everyone, and it was really, really uncomfortable. And it was just really, really impacting on our confidence and. We did the job anyway, but it just made it so much more difficult and she really, she developed a lot of masculine tendencies.

She was very, It wasn’t assertive, it was aggressive, but she was known for making people cry at times. She never talked to you about your personal life. She never, like I said, read or replied to any emails or turned up at any meetings. She was always managing upwards, so she kind of left the team to it. So those two role models there have an incredibly positive.

That I still look back to now, sadly, she passed away a couple of years ago and I just, it was incredibly sad to hear of that because I think she, she’s had so much, she gave so much to the world and she had so much more to give. And then the negative role model that I just learned, [00:08:00] it was almost like both of those were a mirror to me.

So that positive role model wanted to take on some of those behaviors. I wanted to take on some of those skills in the way that she did things so brilliantly, and for the negative role model I could really learn about. This is not how I want to shop as a leader. This is not how I would manage and support my team.

This is not how I would behave in front of other directors and just openly criticize my own. So really important to think about the positive and the negative role models. So we’ve established what a role model is. So it’s someone that you inspired by Aspire to be like, you might not have a direct relationship with them.

They’ve trodden a path that you want to be on, and they, you can learn a huge amount from them. Why then a aroma so important. Why are they so powerful? And research shows that role models have three core benefits for women. Especially women in leadership roles. Firstly, role models represent and expand [00:09:00] what is possible.

So if you see a role model in a particular area, if you see a role model at that very senior level, at that board level, you yourself just have that awareness that actually there’s more. There’s more that I can have. There’s more that I can do. There’s more of an impact that I can have cuz someone’s already been there, someone’s already doing it.

So it is possible for me, and it is possible for. So that’s the first point. The second point, role models inspire women to be more ambitious and aim higher. So when maybe we’re having that internal battle sometimes of who am I to do this? And we don’t go for the promotion, we don’t ask for the pay rise.

We don’t go for that, for that big new job. But then we’ve got a role model. That’s who, who’s already there or is on her way there. And actually it just, it is almost, it fuels that ambition more. It lights our fire more and we can be more ambitious and we can aim higher. And then finally the [00:10:00] third reason, role models demonstrate mindsets and behaviors of how to rise.

And I love this one. And like I said, you can have those positive role models that inspire and aspire, you aspire to be like. And then also those negative role models. When you see those role models in those meetings, when you see them on videos, when you see them on panels and speaking or presenting. Just seeing how they behave, how they’re delivering a particular message, how they communicate, how they adapt their style, how they make sure that they’re heard.

Those are all behaviors that you can learn from, that you can adapt, and even at the most senior level, even if you are already there. You can still have those role models around you. So really those role models demonstrate the mindsets and behaviors of how to rise. And it’s also role models are also a really important part of what I call the develop your development framework.

So what do I mean by that? Every person has a development framework in their career. So they have career [00:11:00] strategy and direction they want to go with, and then to support that, they create a developmental. Framework, a network effectively. So developmental network, so your role models can become part of that network.

And the developmental network are almost the people that are gonna help you to get to where you wanna be. So it might be someone within a different area, it might be a peer. Or it might be someone that you, they are role modeled to you. So role models very much also form part of your developmental network.

And this is something that I work on with clients within my, um, final fire leadership program. So let’s go on to now, what are the benefits of role models? So what do we get from it and how’s it gonna help your, help your career? So the first one is really around, helps you to visualize your goals. So I work a lot with clients as a, as we go for different stages of work together.

Part of the work that we always [00:12:00] do is very much looking at their career goals, creating a career strategy, and that’s a whole separate process that I have mapped out. And in the day to day you can often lose sense of that. And some people just naturally visualize clearly where they want to go. They know the direction, they know their dream job title.

They know and believe and trust that they can get to that very senior board. That it can be in those conversations that are influencing the direction of the company. Whilst for others they might not be able to. They might not have that belief, therefore, they might not visualize it. But a role model is gonna help you to visualize your goal.

They’re gonna help you to see that it’s possible for you. They’re gonna see, help you to see the why not you rather. Who am I to? Why not you? So really finding someone in the position that you wanna get to helps you see what they’re delivering and the results. What capabilities are needed, what’s the success criteria for that role?

[00:13:00] What are the behaviors that are needed at that level? And also inspiring you to know that you can get there as. Uh, so that’s the first one. The second reason role models are so powerful, it’s just that inspiration that we talked about. So, role models are gonna help you to feel inspired. They’re gonna help you to see that actually the world where so many cos are called John much more than there’s women at the top of the hundred Foote 100 companies.

You can be inspired and trust and know that you can get there too. That you can achieve great things, that you can join the board and really influence the direction of the company that you can grow into that role, and that inspiration is then gonna lead to confidence as well. So it’s gonna provide you with that inspiration to know that you can get there.

But it’s also gonna help you to see that you, you have the confidence to know that you can get [00:14:00] there as well. And seeing someone else achieve the goals you want to achieve can help build that confidence to just take a step forward over time and really telling yourself, if someone else can do it, you can do it too.

So, for example, the four minute mile for a long time is impossible. And then Rogers banister broke that four minute mile. And then within weeks, uh, 10, 11 people had still had also broken that four minute mile. So just role models can really, really help you, um, with feeling confident and feeling inspired as well.

Role models also can be a mirror for you, so they can help you to see what skills you already. What behaviors you already understand and know that you need to get to that very senior level and stay there. And they could be a mirror for what you might also need to develop and you might need to work on.

And I talked earlier about those positive role models that I was, I aspired to be like and inspired by. And also those negative role models of these ways, [00:15:00] I will not behave. This is not for me. And those role models really gives the model. Create a mirror for us to really look at our own skills, look at our own areas that we want to develop, look at knowledge that we might need to just really invest in knowing more in a certain area.

So role models help your career by being that mirror. Role models also help your career by why not me. They really help bridge the gap and open up the world of possibility, especially when they’re very honest and they share the good, the bad, the ugly of their career. When they share all of that, you know that they get nervous, you know, that they feel like an imposter sometimes.

You know that they might get spoken over sometimes, you know that they question their ability. They’re just like, So it really opens up that sense of why not you? And they provide a template for success and you could start to understand what makes ’em su successful and [00:16:00] even ask ’em how they got there and start to learn from them.

Another great reason why role models are gonna help your career is really just down to just seeing just a really developed. And a really powerful skill set in motion. And at that very senior level, there’s a different mix of skills that are needed to when you are someone that’s maybe at less senior level that’s kind of in delivery.

And that can be hard to articulate what is the difference. And actually big part of leadership programs is helping develop the mindset, the skills, the awareness. So really, It’s gonna help you hugely to be able to see that deep and rich skill set in emotion. And even if you are already at that very senior board level, just seeing how someone else approaches something, seeing the differences.

Like we said earlier, it’s gonna hold up a mirror to you, but it’s gonna really empower you to just see all those different skills in motion and being used in a really powerful way. And [00:17:00] finally, a role model can also become an advocate for you or a mentor. So we talked about the differences between role models and mentors, but it’s really important to also think if someone really inspires you and you aspire to be like them, you can also just ask them to become a mentor for.

You can ask them, spend six months working with you, having some informal meetings, get their advice to understand how they’ve done thing, to know how they made that step up at all the different levels of their career. And then you could create and develop a mental mentee relationship over time. And if that goes really well and you create a really good connection, that mentor can then become a really powerful advocate for you as well.

So, Those are the different reasons we’ve talked about. So we’ve talked about it’s gonna help you to visualize the benefit of role models. How can you visualize your. Helping you to feel inspired and knowing that you can do more and to feel more confident is gonna also be a [00:18:00] template for successful you.

So it’s gonna be a mirror to your skills, the negative and the positive. It can also provide you with that template for success, and you can see a really powerful skill set in motion. And finally, that role model all can also become a mentor for you. So those are the big reasons. To the powerful reasons.

That role model is gonna help your career, whatever level you’re at, and. I also want you to finish your day just by talking about, just for you, inviting you to also pay it forward. So when I talk to many of the women that I work with day in a doubt that at that very senior level, when you get to the board level roles for telecoms and tech, you have your role to deliver.

You have deliverables and goals that you need to achieve. You then also have a team support, but there’s also. Part of the job is what I would call Job Plus. The job Plus is [00:19:00] really around sharing your story, so it’s almost paying it forward. And Cheryl Samba talks about this a a lot in terms of advising women to accept any invitation.

Regardless of what it is, where it is, and just use it as an opportunity to champion other women to lean in and it might feel reticent. You might feel like you’re not ready to be a role model. You might think, Who am I to be a role model? You might feel like you’re too busy, or it might be that you are talking yourselves down.

You’re discounting your success. Arguing for your shortcomings and really just focusing what you have yet to achieve rather than what you’ve already achieved. But in that senior position, you already have people looking up to you. You already have women that are not a senior yet, that are looking up to you, that are inspired by you, that aspire to be like you.

But really just it’s okay to share your story. It’s incredibly powerful to share your story. [00:20:00] Um, so if you are a woman who’s listening today, I encourage you to be the role model you wished you had when you were starting out. So in those early days in your career where you were a bit like a rabbit in the headlights and you were often the only woman in the room, I encourage you to be that role model that you wished you’d had at that very early stage.

When you were starting out, that could have helped you to feel inspired, that could have helped you with your confidence, that could have helped you to be mirrored the skills you needed to be developed. So if you are asked to be a mentor, say yes. If you are asked to be interviewed on a podcast like mine, say yes.

If you’re asked to be on a panel, say yes and invite another woman to join you as well and recommend someone. And your story of how you got to be where you are and what you’ve experienced and the skills you developed along the way may well inspire a young woman to take that leap of faith in herself that she might not have otherwise done.

That then [00:21:00] applies for the promotion, goes for the bigger role, makes a leap into the tech and telecom world. That’s my invitation to you today. So we’ve gone through and talked about what is a role model. We’ve gone and talked about the research, those three core benefits of role models for women in the corporate world.

And then we’ve talked about how role models can help your career. But I wanted to leave you with, um, that message of inviting you to pay it forward and be a good role model yourself, other women, and be someone. That’s true and real and authentic to be your version of a role model. And it’s not about someone just taking on every behavior from you and adopting every skill that you have.

You’re genuinely, you’re gonna become a mirror to them to help them to develop their own sense of self, to develop their own sense of, I can be where you are, and doing all that as the individual that they are, rather than needing to be like you. [00:22:00] That’s my final message for today. Really, just really encourage you to be the role model you wish you’d had when you were starting out, because that could make all the difference to someone starting out in their career.

So that’s everything I want to talk about today and. I just wanted to leave you with that message, just be the role model you wished you’d had, because I think that’s incredibly powerful and I think if I think back to my career, I think it could have been quite different if I’d had those role models earlier in my career.

That’s it for today. If you are new to the podcast, I would invite you to subscribe or share it with someone you think will find is useful, and also just to remind you that if you are looking out with setting up structures for models in the organization or if you’re looking to help women in your organization at the very top, just contact me.

All my contact details are in the show notes and I look forward to hearing from you. I’ll see you on the next podcast. Goodbye.

If you love what I [00:23:00] have to say and you’d like to find out more about working with me, easiest way to do that is to book a Get to Know You Call. So there’s a link to that in the show notes. I can help you through working with your organization to help close the gender pay gap through Women’s leadership Program.

To help empower your women at the top to be more influential, impactful leaders and really own their leadership identity. Or I can create workshops around confidence, around emotional intelligence, creating a career strategy, or developing your own leadership identity. Or I can work one to one or group coach your senior leaders to help them to overcome a very specific problem or just again, really own their own leadership identity.

Or I can work with you one to one. I do work with a small number of private clients and you can work with me either on my shorter focus coaching program where we pick one specific thing and we just really focus in on it and help you to move past it [00:24:00] or my deep dive. Find your five V i P program. Which really gets the root cause of what’s holding you back and also helps you to create a very, very clear idea of what you want for the future.

And within that, your leadership identity. The results that I get from clients are as varied as they are. Brilliant. I’m incredibly proud of them. So some examples, my client being promoted twice within the six months they worked with me. Another client being. To join the board, another client being offered a brand new role that wasn’t available to anyone else with a big promotion and a big pay rise, and a client that was pushed out of an organization to then being offered three dream roles that they could choose from.

And finally a client that decided that the corporate world wasn’t for her anymore and helping her to re get really, really clear on what she wanted and sell a new company that she’s absolutely in love with. If you are not quite ready to work me yet, that’s absolutely okay. You can download my Overwhelm on Fire Guide, which is.

Five simple steps to help you clear your [00:25:00] head and help you get back to feeling on fire and take that inspired action and really be that leader that you know you can be. Or you can subscribe to my newsletter, which comes out on a Friday, which has the best bits of the week, and also hints and tips, new stats that have come out.

And things that I’m reading or watching. So that’s a great way to keep in touch and a few quotes to my clients. I can talk about what I do all day. I absolutely love it. One client said, Well, thank you for transformation. Who I am now at home and at work is who I am meant to be. I can feel it, and that difference is just incredible.

Thank you for what you do, Nick, for another. Who just stepped into a new exec director role. Her quote was, It felt like I was wearing a coat that didn’t fit. It was a coat that was new that didn’t quite fit me, that I didn’t feel that I was good enough for now. I step proudly stand tall. I’m proud who I am wearing that coat of leadership.

I am confident to speak up. I am the [00:26:00] right hand woman of the ceo and I have that coat that just looks great and I feel it fits, and I am just incredibly empowered leader. So thank you so much. So if you are looking to get some help just to be that most impactful and influential leader or help women in your organization by closing that gender pay gap.

Do Booker get to know you? Call me. All the details of this are in my show notes. I can’t wait to work with you. Um, and thank you for listening.