Nicola: [00:00:00] Hello, a welcome to today’s episode of Women at the Top of Telecoms and Tech. I am Nicola Buckley. Your host and I help telecoms and tech organizations, uh, recruit, retain, and develop women at the top and in leadership positions and future talent to close the gender pay gap and make more inclusive. So today’s episode I think is a massively important one and something that is really at the heart of the work that I do.

With organizations. Today’s episode is gonna be focusing on the big issues that women face at work that is stopping them getting to the very, the most senior positions, to being on the board, to being in those huge meetings where the direction of the company and the strategy is set and being involved in those huge conversations and.

It’s such a [00:01:00] time of change that I think it’s time to change. If we think about the last two years, the world of work is different for all of us. There’s nothing that’s the same in the corporate world. So the hybrid working the. New approaches to just being more flexible, to being more supportive, to having create closer connections with work with your employees.

So the world of work has changed, so it’s time to really drive and just use that period of change to. Just drive inclusion and parity as part of that as well. But we know that we still face a world where there’s more Johns that are CEOs than women in the Footsy 100. We also, we know that it’s not only women, telecoms and tech, it’s the, it’s a challenge to have more women to recruit.

So there’s sometimes there’s not enough of a pool of women. Just push that gender equality and start to make changes. And there’s also then the problem of retaining women. So we [00:02:00] need to make sure that there’s also, there’s a pool of women that we can recruit into the industry, but then there’s also support for women as they go through different stages of their lives.

And if we still look to. Predate the pandemic. We know that actually for women, they carried more of the invisible load. We know that there’s a lot more of a, they were doing more things at home and supporting the family and supporting children. But Covid 19 and lockdown has really exacerbated that and forced.

Some women, particularly women of color out of the workplace entirely. So the future remains quite uncertain, and now businesses are moving into almost a bit of a business business As usual. They’re looking at return to office plans, and they’re looking at how to create a hybrid working framework for a lot of organizations, whereas some organizations want their employees to be back in the room and.

No matter how your, your work is approached, the current pandemic reality leaders have a [00:03:00] unique ability to write. And just drive change right now and change the structure and systemic wrongs that have long created in equities for women at work. So today I’m gonna help you just to have those conversations in the workplace by just listing out what we see as the top 10 issues that are really affecting women to progress in business and across, especially telecoms and tech.

So we. 10 different reasons, but then we’re also gonna look at some actions that can be, start to be implemented by leaders as well. So, um, not really in any particular order, so, First one is really around flexible work arrangements. So working flexibly is an issue needed for many women. Absolutely. So that could be around being caregiver, that could be around needing to be home for their children.

And so many organizations now are bringing in flexible work arrangements. So it was once seen as more as a benefit in [00:04:00] some organizations or accommodation for. If someone was a caregiver. But really flexible work arrangements now are becoming a way of attracting top talent and also a cost saving measure to reduce turnover, productivity, and absenteeism.

But also it is a way to attract in that very, very top talent. And I think the brilliant thing about flexible work arrangements, and we had an episode where we talked to Nicola PEs all about this. This is not just for women. This, it’s for men that potentially want to spend more time with their children.

This is for someone who has a really, uh, a really strong passion for something outside of their work. This might be for someone that knows actually they work better just working four days a week. So it is really for, it’s for the benefit of everyone to create that more inclusive culture that starts those conversations of knowing and connecting with employees more deeply, understanding their lives, understanding what they need, that women especially, Need those flexible work arrangements.

So what’s been [00:05:00] brilliant to see recently has been the appointment of co-chief executive Katie, big staff for Marks and Spencers, and she is going into that role with flexible working. So she’s going into that role for four days a week and that’s part of what she agreed. And she’s at this very, very senior level, this co-chief executive, and she’s gone in, she’s set a framework for what she needs to balance.

That incredible job with her family and it’s just part of her contract, which is absolutely brilliant to see. And I think a real, a real role model to other women to know, actually, do you need to, Does it need to be five days a week and more to be in the most senior roles? If I can do the job with impact or can I job share?

Just to open up to those flexible ways of working. So what can leaders do? So I think having a flexible work arrangement policy and trusting your team and knowing that actually they’re, if they’re still delivering, they can work in the way they [00:06:00] want to. But setting some structures. So some organizations, for example, have core work days when it’s the time to be in the office where you can collaborate where.

Creative meetings where you can have those meetings where it really benefits to have everyone together. Um, so set that structure, but also give everyone the freedom and independence to choose and just have that clarity. And like I said, it creates that communication and connection and discussion and also know and talk about it.

So to ensure that you’re attracting that top talent. Attracting more women into the organization. Um, just to talk about that when you are recruiting. Talk about it when you are in the interview and make sure that there’s a real focus on sharing that this is something that you do. That’s number one, Flexible work arrangements to support women coming into the industry and into roles.

Number two is around equal pay. Women still make less than. So women around the world continue to face a wage gap. The difference between men and women, a very senior level can be up to a million [00:07:00] pounds. So imagine the scenario of a woman starts a junior level in an organization. They might have taken a lower salary because they didn’t negotiate so well, and then at different stages through their career where men might have asked for a pay rise.

Women haven’t. The same equivalent woman hasn’t done that. So, Over a career at a very senior level, they can, that can total up to earning 1 million pounds less, which just kind of blows my mind. Women MBA graduates were paid up to $4,600 less than men in their first job after graduation. So even taking into that, that previous experience, So there is still a wage gap and not only is a wage gap, there’s also a lack of transparency.

So even job adverts now are still salary expectations or salary details aren’t shared on an advert, for example. So you just don’t know until you’re in the process. And then that might, that starts from a place of not knowing that then that conversation becomes more difficult. So what can leaders do here?

[00:08:00] So you can ensure. There’s absolute pay transparency, so you can be very clear about bandings. You can be very clear about when someone sits, how much, how much room they got to move up in those at banding and also. Encourage conversations around it. It seems to be such a secret of how much someone earns, but it’s, it’s simply a number at the end of the day.

What can leaders do also ensure that there’s no gaps in your organization by looking at a wage or date. So where does everyone sit? How does that then flow across women of color, women in general? People from different backgrounds. So just doing a wage or that sets up real honesty and understanding. And also evaluate, really look at the recruitment, the promotion and talent development system for gender buyers.

So getting HR support to really look at recruitment. Is the language in adverts gender bias? Is it more masculine? Within promotion, how do we take the brilliant women that we have and put them into [00:09:00] succession planning and then talent development? Let’s not discount women who maybe are more introverted.

Let’s not discount women that maybe have a family or have children. So looking at those different areas, those different stages of relationship with a company. So number three is race and gender bias. So everyone has unconscious biases, so we all carry them. So it’s kind of like our framework for how we see the world from how we were brought up, from how we were raised, from what we saw when we were children.

So all of us carry biases that are unconscious. We just don’t know that they’re there. They might come out in the ways that we behave. They might come out in the things that we say. They might come out in just our reaction to certain situations. They kind of play out in everyday lives. And women of color just face a unique set of challenges because it transcends then across race and ethnicity and gender and culture.

So women of color, it’s almost say face, have to deal with even more daunting roadblocks [00:10:00] such as people’s beliefs and attitudes and experience. So what can leaders do? You can support people on understanding and knowing their own unconscious bias, and it’s not about a blame culture. It’s about giving frameworks.

And educating people to know that we all carry this with us. So let’s talk about it. Let’s help you understand what yours might be, and then let’s help you to set some very clear frameworks of what is and what isn’t acceptable, and be open to feedback and learning. And at that very senior level, be role models.

Be role models for calling out behavior. Be role models for saying what isn’t, isn’t appropriate because of vital silence makes you complicit and allowing it to continue and build trust and build connection with your employees to really confront inequities through organization wise strategies. So it’s really around that helping people, supported people to [00:11:00] know and talk about their own, those difficult, uncomfortable topics around race, around gender.

Everyone has a role to play in this. This is not with anyone person, and this is not just with the board. This is across an organization. Number four, access to those, what I would call hot jobs. So those hot jobs are the ones with really hot, high visibility. They are strategic and really impactful. Send the direction of the company, or they might be around international experiences.

But today, women still get offered fewer those hot jobs. They are. Not as available to women. And they’re really important in reaching those very highest levels of leadership cuz they’re a really powerful way of demonstrating someone’s capability of being a huge experience to someone of almost succession planning someone into the next level of job.

So not all leadership’s opportunity to create ly. So sometimes those jobs just go to people that look like the person already in the job, and it’s really important to kind of [00:12:00] open that out. So what can leaders do here? They can make a deliberate investment to help women colleagues to open up those hot jobs to make sure everyone is aware of them.

Everyone knows that they’re available and encourage. People from different backgrounds to apply to them. So they get that visibility, so they get those really organization leading roles. Leaders can also empower individuals so that they have a very clear career strategy. So empowering them by helping them to create and own their own career strategy.

And as part of that, speak to their ambition. Know their ambition and where they wanna get to, but also speak it and share. So empowering employees as well to really negotiate and go for these roles to know that there’s options there. So there’s the visibility of the role, but then there’s also helping your employees to see the value and and knowing the value that they bring.

So number five, role models. So there’s still. Not enough female role models if there’s more [00:13:00] men in organizations or CEOs called John than there are women. And research has shown that almost two-thirds of women report in lack of senior visibly successful female role models. And that saw, they saw that as a major obstacle to their career.

And women make up almost half of the workforce in the us, but less than 5% of cos are this huge drop off in terms of where women are sitting. Within organization and actually the manager level is the level, the broken rung of the ladder almost, where women find it very hard to step away from manager level into that next level role.

So what can leaders do here? Just be really intentional about encouraging role modeling around bringing women into those very senior roles to promoting up and through the company. Bringing women into the exec team, the corporate board, the C-suite, or the CEO position, and seeking out potential candidates that can fulfill those [00:14:00] roles, but also setting a framework.

And setting succession planning in place for women across the organization, helping them to develop their management skills so they know how to lead a team so they get past that broken rung of the ladder being clear when they move into a head of role or that very more senior director role. Knowing that actually is a change in that role from delivering and into leading and managing a team or an area or a division.

So helping them, again, to develop these skills, but also some of those. What we’ll call softer skills were actually power skills around just that belief and that confidence in yourself and knowing yourself incredibly well, and drawing out the brilliant qualities that women bring to those senior roles of empathy, of compassion, of connection, of understanding, of sharing their story.

So creating those framework for all models. So it could be that you look at creating a mentorship program. It could be that you create forums for women and [00:15:00] aspiring future leaders to share their stories together. So number six, sponsorship. So this is really around, um, leaders advocating and sponsoring women that are, have the experience that are highly qualified by speaking of them on their behalf.

So it’s really about creating what I call that developmental network. And having mentors that become advocates that become sponsors and use their position authority to really influence helping other people, women advance this, really essential to ensuring that career development that when you’re not in the room and big jobs and.

Promotions and next steps are being discussed in succession planning, that you have someone there advocating for you. You have someone there knowing what you want as a next step, that you have someone there that knows your brilliance, that knows the value that you bring. So sponsors are gonna give you visibility, they’re gonna help talk about your [00:16:00] accomplishments, and they’re gonna promote you for those stretch opportunities.

So what can leaders do here to. Create that environment of of sponsorship. So firstly, recognize sponsorship is something that anyone could do, including especially men who can take on really powerful actions to promote women across the organization. Really listen to women. Female colleagues at that very senior level, what could help them to feel more included?

So could that be a policy around an education, around menopause? For example, many of my clients are at the stage of their life where they’re starting to go through perimenopause, and actually it can really have an impact on your clarity thinking. It can create some real brain fog. I’ve certainly experienced that.

So knowing that there’s policies there to support women at different life stages and listening to them really carefully and knowing that when there’s feedback that they’ve been spoken over in meetings, how do you address that company level? What can leaders also do? Take a look [00:17:00] at your, your safe pair of hands, your go-to people.

Is that a diverse group or is it a lot of people that look. The people that are already at the top. So that’s about sponsorship. So number seven is sexual harassment. So women at all levels of employee and all levels of workforce can be affected by this. And it remains sadly, a, a really widespread problem.

And from research, at least one quarter of women haven’t reported some sort of sexual harassment on the job. And for every person that reports, it’s probably more scenarios where the women haven’t been brave enough to report this. And that’s kind of, can be inappropriate behavior. It can be something that’s said.

It can be something that makes you feel uncomfortable, inappropriate comments, all those sort of things. I certainly know my career. I’ve had Christmas parties when I’ve had a very senior director make advances to me. I’ve been touched in inappropriate ways and just being made to real comments on my clothes, for example.[00:18:00]

So just made to feel I’m really uncomfortable in my own skin and just to change my behavior, and this is something that’s very difficult to talk about, but actually it can lead to increased absenteeism, job turnover. Lower productivity, not feeling engaged, not feeling a part of the team, just wanting to withdraw.

So, and individually, you know, women can really take that on and really experience anxiety or just move somewhere different in the hope of just stopping that harassment. So what can leaders do here? Just really start to put together prevention strategies. So create a culture where it’s safe to call things out.

Create a culture where you lead by example. So I’ve had clients that are the most senior women in their organization. They’re on the board, yet they’re also asked to grab someone a cup. Or they’re asked to take the notes in a meeting. So we really need to stop, call out those behaviors cause that is almost giving permission for even [00:19:00] more impactful, um, situations.

Leaders can also make sure that they are reporting mechanisms, so if someone wants to be anonymous, still away reporting something. And also train managers just to call out behavior. And investigate complaints of harassment and take that corrective action. So it’s not something I like to talk about, but it still goes on and it’s something that’s really important to acknowledge that is still there.

And I think the world is a different place. So I think, I feel like it’s less of a problem, but there’s still stats to support that is still happen. So just something to really just stamp out, to call out and not only for women, but also just to, for that inclusive, for the sake of an inclusive culture. Not just sexual harassment, but also someone that might be L G B T being able to call out behavior on their path or something that’s racially, um, related.

So it’s that, it’s almost that psychological safety of knowing someone to come to work as who they are and not face harassment for that, or not be put [00:20:00] down for that or face something that makes them feel real uncomfortable. Number eight is around non-inclusive workplaces. So women kind of often feel dismissed or ignored.

I, um, when I run leadership programs, part of what we work on is helping women to find their voice and to speak up because they can still feel like outsiders. They can often in tech, in telecoms, they’re one of the only woman in the room, um, especially as they become more senior or they can be one of just a few women in the room.

So it’s really difficult then to speak up at times. It’s really challenging then to, if you’re calling someone out or if you’re challenging just the flow of the conversation. But building that inclusive workplace. Creating a culture where everyone is free to be themselves and safe to bring our whole selves to work and speak up and challenge things.

So what can leaders do here? So create some conversational ground rules and how hold yourself and your team accountable following that openness, that [00:21:00] honesty, you know, really live and breathe that. Demonstrate that yourself. You can also develop the share and standing and language about inclusion and inclusion, and get some experts in to speak to your organization, set up a strategy, and really focus in on it.

An inclusive workplace is going to, at the end of the day, help your bottom line. It’s gonna help the organization thrive. Cause it’s gonna be more creative. There’s gonna be a diversity of experience, there’s going to be a better understanding of your customer base because you have people that represent all different areas of your customer base.

Number nine is the double bind, actually, I’m gonna talk about on a separate podcast episode. So, Women’s ability to lead, often undermined by gender stereotypes. So the stereotype that men take charge and women take care pits women into a double bind. So what do I mean by this double bind? Just to introduce it briefly.

Women can be judged as being too hard, so assertive, aggressive, or too soft and never just. [00:22:00] So women leaders also seen as competent or like, but never both. And that masculine style of leadership is the default style of leadership that I know I can feel and the sense that we’re moving away from. But with that being the default style of leadership, it’s kind of what’s looked for still is so skills that are very known, whereas the more feminine styles of leadership around compassion and vulnerability and empathy and intuition, they’re not as known.

So it’s harder to recognize them. It’s harder to see. So therefore that promotion path, knowing that a woman has those more feminine skills, they’re not seen with the same value, they’re not recognized in the same way, which can all together accumulate in women leading, working so much harder than their male Ken counterparts.

So what can leaders do here to help with that double bind? You can really role model and share stories of female leaders that have a different range of skills you can really help. [00:23:00] And set policies and processes in place to recognize different skills. So that could be using assessments like DISC or M B T I to help people see that there’s different ways of doing things.

Someone might not speak up in a meeting because they’re a reflector. So actually the day after, they have the brilliant idea that has just as much impact as one in the meeting. So challenge yourself whether you are judging people fairly. And what else can leaders do? Obviously provide diversity and inclusion training.

So help employee understand the effects of gender stereotyping of racial stereotyping, and just know you set very clear premise of what is and isn’t acceptable behavior. And finally the final step we’re gonna talk about today. Another important issue is just really helping women and supporting women across different chapters of their life.

So for example, coming into an organization, just helping them to really. Be sure of who they are and just know that there’s different ways of leading. [00:24:00] Doesn’t need to do just a masculine way. It’s not the only style of leadership. Knowing, helping and supporting women, maybe when they’re having a family, to be able to return to a senior role, to be able to return to a promotion, to be able to return to a job share.

And then as women move through their life, also giving them a peer support and a network to be able to share their stories, to be able to encourage other women, um, and also men that are supporting them and allies as well. And then finally, supporting women where they’re maybe going for that stage of life.

It’s menopause or perimenopause. and educating companies and everyone across organization, around what are the symptoms, what’s the impact? How can I support people that are going, or women that are going through this. So it is just, and knowing and understanding those different life stages, women going through and men and be able to supporting, support them with that and recognize that and have policies and procedures in place to do that.

That’s it for today. I think we’ve talked through quite a lot of things and there’s these, the important, these issues just are [00:25:00] not gonna go away. These are issues that might be uncomfortable in your organization. They might feel really challenging to talk about. They might be something that brings up shame or judgment, but actually, Like I said at the very beginning, we’re now in a time change, so now is the time to change.

So if you need help with this within your organization and dealing with some of these issues around bringing women to the very top of organizations and into those key leadership roles, do drop me a message. All my contact details or on the show notes. We’ll have a conversation and see how it can help you.

And if you are new to the podcast, I would invite you to give the podcast a review so more people can find us, some great reviewers. You can subscribe so you don’t miss another, Never miss another episode. Always there for you, or you can share with a colleague or someone that might find today’s episode useful.

So thanks so much for today and I will speak to you on the next episode. Try if you love what I have to say. And. Find out more [00:26:00] about working with me. Easiest way to do that is to book a Get to Know You call, so there’s a link to that in the show notes. I can help you through working with your organization to help close the gender pay gap through women’s leadership programs.

To help empower your women at the top to be more influential, impactful leaders and really own their leadership identity. Or I can create workshops around confidence, around emotional intelligence, creating a career strategy, or developing your own leadership identity. Or I can work one to one or group coach your senior leaders to help them to overcome a very specific problem or just again, really own their own leadership identity.

Or I can work with you one to one. I do work with a small number of private clients and you can work with me either on my shorter focus coaching program where we pick one specific thing and we just really focus in on it and help you to move past it or my deep dive. Find [00:27:00] your five V i P program. Which really gets the root cause of what’s holding you back and also helps you to create a very, very clear idea of what you want for the future.

And within that, your leadership identity. The results that I get from clients are as varied as they are. Brilliant. I’m incredibly proud of them. So some examples. My client being promoted twice within the six months they worked for me. Another client being invited to join the board, another client being offered a brand new role that wasn’t available to anyone else with a big promotion and a big pay rise and a client that was pushed out of an organization to them being offered three dream roles that they could choose from.

And finally a client that decided that the corporate world wasn’t for her anymore and helping her to re get really, really clear on what she wanted and sell a new company that she’s absolutely in love with. If you are not quite ready to work me yet, that’s absolutely okay. You can download my Overwhelm on Fire Guide, which is five simple steps to help you clear your head and help you get back to feeling on [00:28:00] fire and take that inspired action and really be that leader that you know you.

Or you can subscribe to my newsletter, which comes out on a Friday, which has the best bits of the week. And also hints and tips, new stats that have come out and things that I’m reading or watching. So that’s a great way to keep in touch and a few quotes to my clients. I can talk about what I do all day.

I absolutely love it. One client said, Well, thank you for transformation. Who I am now at home and at work is who I am meant to be. I can feel it, and that difference is just incredible. Thank you for what you do. Nick, for another client who just stepped into a new exec director role. Her quote was, It felt like I was wearing a coat that didn’t fit.

It was a coat that was new that didn’t quite fit me, that I didn’t feel that I was good enough for now. I step proudly stand tall and proud who I am wearing that coat of leadership. I am confident to speak up. I am the right hand woman of the ceo, and [00:29:00] I have that coat that just looks great and I feel it fits, and I am just this incredibly empowered leader.

So thank you so much. So, If you are looking to get some help just to be that most impactful and influential leader or help women in your organization by closing that gender pay gap, do Booker get to know you? Call me. All the details of this are in my show notes. I can’t wait to work with you. Um, and thank you for listening.